Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by vargasfan1985

I've never heard someone say Frazier isn't an ATG heavy until I came to ESB. What a fucking shock. The same place that puts Wlad and Vitali as the best heavyweights of all-time.

Fucking pathetic.

Only a few spackers rate the brothers as the best, coincidentally the same spackers that denigrate past HW greats and their achievements.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by Kevin Willis

Neither Frazier or Marciano cut any weight and would probably been super middle's or at the most lightheavies today. Unless of course they wanted to give today's heavyweights a shot by pounding down the protein and hitting the big iron like a football player.

Talking out of your ass here. And you weren't doing too bad, either.

[BobTheBuilder]

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

On ESB, Welliver.

He's a physical specimen.

Check him out here (right)

http://fightnews.com/Boxing/fujimoto_welliver300.jpg

-Those chiseled abs
-Those solid pecs
-That big throbbing cock (no homo)

[Curtis Lowe]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

I'm sure I'll catch alot of shit talking about a beloved fighter like Frazier, but the truth is that he is quite possibly the most overrated heavyweight of all time. I hear people mention him as a top 5, top 10, top 20 heavyweight, when he simply isn't. If you're bound and determined to believe he is great, just like a religious person, no facts will change your mind. But if you choose to be open minded, I simply do not see ANY argument for him being an ATG heavyweight, period.

First off, lets start with his record 32-4-1. He has 37 fights total, not very many to begin with. Ask yourself, what great all time heavyweights has he fought? Ali and Foreman are the only two answers.

Ali was a COMPLETELY different fighter after being exiled for three years, he completely lost his legs. This was a technically flawed fighter, but one who was tremendous due to physical gifts. He was a shadow of his former self after returning, any only won big fights afterwards due to outsmarting guys like Foreman. Still, despite this being a much worse Ali, Frazier loses 2 out of the 3 fights. Ali would have absolutely destroyed him pre exile.

Foreman absolutely obliterated Joe Frazier twice. It wasn't even close.

Joe Frazier's record against ATGs: 1-4

His one win being one he'd of never had if he fought Ali pre-exile.

Joe's other best wins are against guys like Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Ellis, whom absolutely nobody considers ATG heavyweights. He hardly pulled out a decision to Bonavena who knocked him down twice, and nearly beat him. He has quite easily the weakest resume of any person considered an ATG, it's ridiculous. Seriously, had he not fought a watered down Ali with diminished physical gifts, would anyone even be talking about him as a great? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The man is 1-4 against ATGs...

You haven't seemed to think this thru.

Look at it this way, utilizing your logic, how many all time greats did Ali beat? According to you Frazier would not count. Liston? If Frazier doesn't ranks as an all time great neither would Liston. Norton? No. Patterson? No. Folley? No. Bonavena? No. Young? No. Cooper? No. Terrell? No.
You already eliminated Quarry and Bonavena.

So utilizing your logic the only great fighter Ali beat would be Foreman.

Now using the same scenario, try Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Tunney, Johnson, Tunney.

See? No one seems to add up.

Now go away.

[BobNWeave]

Joe Frazier is my favorite Pre Tyson Heavyweight but let's be honest. He never perfected the bob and weave like Tyson did. Tyson would have dominated Foreman with his head movement.

[DrBanzai]

No, Tyson is.

[Son of Gaul]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

He cleaned out the Post Ali Era? Beating Jimmy Ellis and Jerry Quarry is cleaning house? Tell me, besides an Ali whos physical gifts were completely diminished, what wins vs all time greats does he have? How can you be considered an all time great, without beating all time great fighters? He was absolutely demolished by Foreman too, both times he wasn't competitive.

I've actually seen many of his fights, he does not deserve to be considered an ATG, period. His resume is incredibly weak, without a watered down Ali win on his record (whom he still lost to twice) nobody would even be considering him great, you CANNOT deny that. Prime Ali would have danced circles around him.

Regarding the highlighted section... WUT?Secondly, don't forget that he also beat Bonavena twice and ruined Mathis. Many people forget just how good these guys were.

[DeadLikeMe]

Joe Frazier and overrated in the same sentence? GTFO.

[Danmann]

Ali is one overrated, not Frazier. No one calls Frazier greatest, and he is left out of most top tens (rightly so) But while Ali was overall greater due to longevity, he also got decisons he did not deserve. Frazier would have still beaten Ali if he had come along in 1967. I got tired long ago of the 'Ali was greatest in 1964-67" lie.

Frazier deserved decision in second Ali fight. Ali held so much he made Vlad Klitschko look like a guy who never clinches.


Frazier wiped out all competition, and if he had taken care of himself he could have hung along a bit longer. His main problem was style, one dimensional, tailor made for Foreman.

[vargasfan1985]

Originally Posted by Danmann

Ali is one overrated, not Frazier. No one calls Frazier greatest, and he is left out of most top tens (rightly so) But while Ali was overall greater due to longevity, he also got decisons he did not deserve. Frazier would have still beaten Ali if he had come along in 1967. I got tired long ago of the 'Ali was greatest in 1964-67" lie.

Frazier deserved decision in second Ali fight. Ali held so much he made Vlad Klitschko look like a guy who never clinches.


Frazier wiped out all competition, and if he had taken care of himself he could have hung along a bit longer. His main problem was style, one dimensional, tailor made for Foreman.

Never saw the Ali-Frazier rematch but I heard Ali held SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much and people were stunned he didn't lose points for holding.

[Danmann]

Eddie Futch showed on one broadcast with writers how Ai clinched 135 times in 12 rounds and he often just refused to let go when ref instructed. If Frazier had gotten decision, which he deserved, big money fights were gone. o they let Ali have it, same with norton.