Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

[HEADBANGER]

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

Ali leaves his head spinning without ever leaving first gear.

Plenty of others beat him.

C'mon IB, you've seen that ham n egger trolling me in this thread, i expect you to give him a stern warning for baiting esb's most repected poster

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by HEADBANGER

C'mon IB, you've seen that ham n egger trolling me in this thread, i expect you to give him a stern warning for baiting esb's most repected poster

I guess revealing how overrated Frazier is, is almost unbearable to these diehard Frazier fans. Sends them on a serious rampage apparently, which can be seen in this thread. Lots of anger and resentment towards me, all while completely ignoring the facts.

[HEADBANGER]

Originally Posted by lefthook89

Well when you make posts like this:



Why WOULDN'T I or anyone with half of a fucking brain assume thats the case? Log off numb nuts.

And what is wrong with that prediction?

You do realise there are just as many black boxers come out of britain than white?


You do realise that the majority of PED cheats are not from europe don't you?

Lets see whether my mouth watering prediction comes true or not

In the mean time, you might study some more of my posts where i praise sugar ray leonard / mike mccallum or where i slate carl froch you pathetic agenda driven troll

[steviebruno]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

Wrong.

It's really easy to spin things in a circle to try to appear right, but that's not the case. I never said "Frazier sucks," I said he was extremely overrated, which is true. Stick to the facts here: Without Ali, what win does Frazier have to make him great? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. His entire legacy is based off going 1-2 with a completely dimished Ali.

Ali has other great wins on his resume

Foreman is the oldest legit HW champ in history.

Frazier's resume is the weakest of any HW considered great, period. He is 1-4 against ATGs, and has a collection of decent to bum fighters that fill out the rest of his record.

So then exclude Frazier from the resume of both Ali and Foreman. What are they left with?

Foreman is left with a loss to an old Ali, who arguably lost 2 out of 3 to Ken Norton while he was close to the level he fought Foreman at.

[Gander Tasco]

Every boxer is overrated , haven't you heard.

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by steviebruno

So then exclude Frazier from the resume of both Ali and Foreman. What are they left with?

Foreman is left with a loss to an old Ali, who arguably lost 2 out of 3 to Ken Norton while he was close to the level he fought Foreman at.

Foreman is the oldest HW champ in history, and speaking of Norton, he beat him very easily.

Ali's wins over Liston and Foreman are still there.

What is Frazier left with, without Ali? Getting his ass kicked twice by Foreman, and wins over Quarry and Jimmy Ellis, while getting knocked down twice by Bonavena?

All time great?

[the commentator]

all frazier had was a left hook and a win over a shot-legged Ali. Foreman beat the oblivion out of choo-chooo train frazier....

[StillWill]

Originally Posted by ROACH

He's capable of handling every style and he's extremelly intelligent. Watch his fight with Willard. He fought in short, smart bursts, similiar to B HOP and then clinched. In contrast, he handled the best swarmer at the time very effectively with sharp uppercuts on the inside.

His defense on the way in was exceptional, and his defense on the backfoot was also great.

In addition, he had the uppercuts to deal with swarming fighters, and the quick straight punches, and the strong outside game to deal with boxers.

If you put him in today's era, he would be champion. In any era, he would be champion.

Ali gives him his toughest fight due to his movement.

Jess Willard is a former circus strongman who didnt BEGIN boxing until he was nearly 30 years old. Its pretty easy to look good against a guy like that, not exactly Floyd Mayweather in the skills department you see. A fight that he also lost.

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by the commentator

all frazier had was a left hook and a win over a shot-legged Ali. Foreman beat the oblivion out of choo-chooo train frazier....

BINGO

[HEADBANGER]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

I guess revealing how overrated Frazier is, is almost unbearable to these diehard Frazier fans. Sends them on a serious rampage apparently, which can be seen in this thread. Lots of anger and resentment towards me, all while completely ignoring the facts.

I seem to cause a great deal of bitterness, envy, and jealousy wherever i post such is my status as national treasure, esb icon, and founder member of the prodigious Team Elite Corporation.

I can only presume lefthooks89s sickenning agenda stems from my receiving of 1.6 million profile views in the same time it has taken him to recieve a paltry 124 profile views

After a lifetime in the shadows, its only understandable that lefthook wants his moment in the sunshine, he's probably come to the conclusion that entering into debate with a respected Team Elite General results in his last chance to catapult himself into esb superstardom after a posting career drenched in mundane mediocrity.

With regards to Frazier, i agree with your viewpoint.

How would you rate Frazier in comparison to the Klitchsko's on the all time great list?

[ROACH]

Originally Posted by StillWill

Jess Willard is a former circus strongman who didnt BEGIN boxing until he was nearly 30 years old. Its pretty easy to look good against a guy like that, not exactly Floyd Mayweather in the skills department you see.

To me, film says otherwise. Williard was a very strong, patient, counterpuncher who had enough power to kill a man in the ring.

He used his physical assets intelligently, and some of the things he does in the way he twists his body and keeps his shoulders high to avoid punches, I see Vitali doing.

In fact, Williard reminds me a lot of Vitali.

And Johnson made it look easy early on. He used feints, movement, aggressive defense, combination punching, and grappling to put on a boxing exhibition. Unfortunately, after 20 rounds or so, he slowed down, and didn't have the heart or the balls to take a beating, so he took a dive.

Fortunately for him, in today's era you only fight 12 rounds. He would dominate almost everyone except for Ali.

[steviebruno]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

Foreman is the oldest HW champ in history, and speaking of Norton, he beat him very easily.

Ali's wins over Liston and Foreman are still there.

What is Frazier left with, without Ali? Getting his ass kicked twice by Foreman, and wins over Quarry and Jimmy Ellis, while getting knocked down twice by Bonavena?

All time great?

So who did Foreman beat at the time Ali beat him? Are we playing time travel and giving Ali credit for something that happened like two decades later?

Ali beats an aging Liston and cements himself as an ATG at age 22, solidifying this distinction by beating everyone that Joe Frazier would go on to beat?

And let's not even go into knockdowns.

[cyrax99]

Originally Posted by steviebruno

So who did Foreman beat at the time Ali beat him? Are we playing time travel and giving Ali credit for something that happened like two decades later?

Ali beats an aging Liston and cements himself as an ATG at age 22, solidifying this distinction by beating everyone that Joe Frazier would go on to beat?

And let's not even go into knockdowns.

Ummm yes, we do put in perspective a fighter's whole career when judging them. I never said Ali solidified himself as an ATG at 22, did I? I pointed out in his whole body of work, those are two of his best wins. You missed the whole point: Without Frazier, Foreman is still the oldest HW champ, with many very solid wins. Ali is still an all time great with many amazing wins. Frazier is an absolute nobody without Ali, and isn't even mentioned in the discussion of all time greats. He lost 2 out of 3 against a horribly diminished Ali, with one single win, and has rode the coat tail of that win all the way into the hall of fame. He got his ass kicked horribly by Foreman twice, completely embarrassed. He doesn't belong in the discussion of all time greats, PERIOD. Losing 2 out of 3 to a diminished fighter, and getting your ass kicked twice by another, totaling 1-4 against all time greats, with a paper thin resume after that doesn't make you great.

[lefthook89]

Originally Posted by HEADBANGER

And what is wrong with that prediction?

You do realise there are just as many black boxers come out of britain than white?

You're showing a bias envisioning/fantasizing a sport being dominated by fighters who share the same ancestry as you. So you're saying you wouldnt call me out for wanting boxing to be dominated by black americans?

Originally Posted by HEADBANGER

You do realise that the majority of PED cheats are not from europe don't you?

You DO realize alot of europeans havent gone through the same testing as the one's that got caught do you? so whose to say the turnout for performance-enhancement users WOULDN'T change should more europeans take it?

Originally Posted by HEADBANGER

Lets see whether my mouth watering prediction comes true or not

Wow, and in the very same breath you classify this prediction as "mouth watering". Not only does that sound extremely gay pertaining to the fact that the topic of discussion is male athletes, but it completely contradicts everything you're trying to claim you're not. But then again idiocy of this magnitude is expected from the likes of you.

Originally Posted by HEADBANGER

In the mean time, you might study some more of my posts where i praise sugar ray leonard / mike mccallum or where i slate carl froch you pathetic agenda driven troll

Yea Ill keep a look out for anything positive you have to say about non-active, retired for over a decade, non white, non-european fighters in the future. Ill also let you know when I've found big foot and the Loch Ness monster as well

[lefthook89]

Originally Posted by cyrax99

I guess revealing how overrated Frazier is, is almost unbearable to these diehard Frazier fans. Sends them on a serious rampage apparently, which can be seen in this thread. Lots of anger and resentment towards me, all while completely ignoring the facts.

Not really, I could give a shit about what you have to say about Frazier. I just like making fun of headbanger