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Old 01-18-2013, 04:56 PM   #76
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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You don't think the rankers are affected at a subconscious level?
Of course but outside accomplishments shouldn't rate a fighter higher than another.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:34 PM   #77
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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You're showing a bias envisioning/fantasizing a sport being dominated by fighters who share the same ancestry as you. So you're saying you wouldnt call me out for wanting boxing to be dominated by black americans?.
1 - You have zero knowledge of whether i am black or white.

2 - I've already made a list of my 12 favourite fighters
- 8 were black / 4 were white
- 5 were british / 5 were american / 2 were mexican

3) I never said 'I wanted' boxing to be dominated by europeans, I stated it as a prediction in 30 years time. If that follows the trend of the past 5 years then there is a chance that could be fact in 30 years time, we will see.

4) No I wouldn't call you out for wanting boxing to be dominated by black americans because you're opinion would be you're opinion, and that is the opinion of a poster with just 124 profile views to his name .

If you can back you're opinion up with some form of logic like i have done with my opinion then that is fine.


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You DO realize alot of europeans havent gone through the same testing as the one's that got caught do you? so whose to say the turnout for performance-enhancement users WOULDN'T change should more europeans take it?
Team Elite Generals deal with irrefutable scientific facts, its why we have never lost a single debate in our history on esb
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Wow, and in the very same breath you classify this prediction as "mouth watering". Not only does that sound extremely gay pertaining to the fact that the topic of discussion is male athletes, but it completely contradicts everything you're trying to claim you're not
Oh dear, did my infinitely superior wordsmithery bring you to breaking point



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Yea Ill keep a look out for anything positive you have to say about non-active, retired for over a decade, non white, non-european fighters in the future. Ill also let you know when I've found big foot and the Loch Ness monster as well
You are very selective in your research due to your bullshit racial trolling agenda.

In just my last 30 posts you will see (of which just 22 are on boxing) :

praise for Jeff Lacy, Kell Brook, Mike McCallum, Glen Johnson, and Larry Holmes

Criticism for Vladimir Klitchsko and Clinton Woods.


I really don't think its possible for a poster to make themselves look any dumber than what you have just done

You have just been left with egg all over your sloppy, embarrassed, racist agenda driven face

You've had your 5 minutes of fame with a Team Elite General, now get the **** out my face and quit de-railing this excellent thread you fart paste craving ham n egger

Last edited by HEADBANGER; 01-18-2013 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #78
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by HEADBANGER View Post
Team Elite Generals deal with irrefutable scientific facts, its why we have never lost a single debate in our history on esb
46,998 debates
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0 defeats
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46,997 victories by way of brutal pwnage




How ****ing dare you.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #79
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

The reason there were more black boxers in the past, is because boxers had to fight in order to have a shot at glory whereas white people were more affluent (in general) than blacks and didn't have a real reason to fight. There are of course exceptions. I'm talking about the 20th century, before the 20th century there was still the effects of slavery lingering on before black people became in control of themselves.

I'm only talking about America where boxing was most popular.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:44 PM   #80
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

I'd pick Dempsey and Liston as my choices for this list long before I'd pick Smokin' Joe.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:51 PM   #81
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

I almost replied seriously. I have so little experience with spotting trolls, you know.

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Unforgivable wrongness.
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:53 PM   #82
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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I'd pick Dempsey and Liston as my choices for this list long before I'd pick Smokin' Joe.


Dempsey had more than twice as many fights as Frazier and was never ko'd for real. He took a dive against one dude for the mob cash.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:25 PM   #83
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Dempsey had more than twice as many fights as Frazier and was never ko'd for real. He took a dive against one dude for the mob cash.
Tough to say whether Dempsey took a dive against Flynn or whether he was just caught cold. Either way, Frazier didn't take a dive against anyone, and fought his heart out even in defeat.

Plus...

Frazier faced as many credible opponents in his career as Dempsey did in his. He didn't sit on his championship for three years, nor did he studiously avoid his most credible challenger. And he's got a victory over an ATG heavyweight who was still a very viable and dangerous fighter at the time.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:42 PM   #84
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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I'm sure I'll catch alot of shit talking about a beloved fighter like Frazier, but the truth is that he is quite possibly the most overrated heavyweight of all time. I hear people mention him as a top 5, top 10, top 20 heavyweight, when he simply isn't. If you're bound and determined to believe he is great, just like a religious person, no facts will change your mind. But if you choose to be open minded, I simply do not see ANY argument for him being an ATG heavyweight, period.

First off, lets start with his record 32-4-1. He has 37 fights total, not very many to begin with. Ask yourself, what great all time heavyweights has he fought? Ali and Foreman are the only two answers.

Ali was a COMPLETELY different fighter after being exiled for three years, he completely lost his legs. This was a technically flawed fighter, but one who was tremendous due to physical gifts. He was a shadow of his former self after returning, any only won big fights afterwards due to outsmarting guys like Foreman. Still, despite this being a much worse Ali, Frazier loses 2 out of the 3 fights. Ali would have absolutely destroyed him pre exile.

Foreman absolutely obliterated Joe Frazier twice. It wasn't even close.

Joe Frazier's record against ATGs: 1-4

His one win being one he'd of never had if he fought Ali pre-exile.

Joe's other best wins are against guys like Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Ellis, whom absolutely nobody considers ATG heavyweights. He hardly pulled out a decision to Bonavena who knocked him down twice, and nearly beat him. He has quite easily the weakest resume of any person considered an ATG, it's ridiculous. Seriously, had he not fought a watered down Ali with diminished physical gifts, would anyone even be talking about him as a great? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The man is 1-4 against ATGs...
fuk u........ he only lost too 2 men who were also atg....frazier beats holmes by the way
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:46 PM   #85
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Just stop.
This.


Before you hurt yourself.
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Old 01-18-2013, 07:50 PM   #86
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by Drew101 View Post
Tough to say whether Dempsey took a dive against Flynn or whether he was just caught cold. Either way, Frazier didn't take a dive against anyone, and fought his heart out even in defeat.

Plus...

Frazier faced as many credible opponents in his career as Dempsey did in his. He didn't sit on his championship for three years, nor did he studiously avoid his most credible challenger. And he's got a victory over an ATG heavyweight who was still a very viable and dangerous fighter at the time.

It's well documented Dempsey took a dive verses Flynn, everybody from his manager, ex wife, and many of those who saw it are all on record saying as much. I don't dispute Frazier was a great, just Dempsey was a greater one in his era.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:16 PM   #87
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by On The Money View Post
It's well documented Dempsey took a dive verses Flynn, everybody from his manager, ex wife, and many of those who saw it are all on record saying as much. I don't dispute Frazier was a great, just Dempsey was a greater one in his era.
Greater...? Perhaps. Dempsey did achieve a measure of fame that pretty much transcended the sport; and became a larger than life figure in the minds of many. But Frazier was still better, as a fighter and a champion. He defended against opponents who were as, if not more, capable than the fighters that Jack faced and avoided no one.

As whether Dempsey dived, or just got caught cold against Flynn, I've read the same stories, and they may well be true. I just don't think it looks good either way, is all.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:28 PM   #88
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by cyrax99 View Post
I'm sure I'll catch alot of shit talking about a beloved fighter like Frazier, but the truth is that he is quite possibly the most overrated heavyweight of all time. I hear people mention him as a top 5, top 10, top 20 heavyweight, when he simply isn't. If you're bound and determined to believe he is great, just like a religious person, no facts will change your mind. But if you choose to be open minded, I simply do not see ANY argument for him being an ATG heavyweight, period.

First off, lets start with his record 32-4-1. He has 37 fights total, not very many to begin with. Ask yourself, what great all time heavyweights has he fought? Ali and Foreman are the only two answers.

Ali was a COMPLETELY different fighter after being exiled for three years, he completely lost his legs. This was a technically flawed fighter, but one who was tremendous due to physical gifts. He was a shadow of his former self after returning, any only won big fights afterwards due to outsmarting guys like Foreman. Still, despite this being a much worse Ali, Frazier loses 2 out of the 3 fights. Ali would have absolutely destroyed him pre exile.

Foreman absolutely obliterated Joe Frazier twice. It wasn't even close.

Joe Frazier's record against ATGs: 1-4

His one win being one he'd of never had if he fought Ali pre-exile.

Joe's other best wins are against guys like Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Ellis, whom absolutely nobody considers ATG heavyweights. He hardly pulled out a decision to Bonavena who knocked him down twice, and nearly beat him. He has quite easily the weakest resume of any person considered an ATG, it's ridiculous. Seriously, had he not fought a watered down Ali with diminished physical gifts, would anyone even be talking about him as a great? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The man is 1-4 against ATGs...

Ban this fool!!!
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:33 PM   #89
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Ban this fool!!!
I was still waiting for Foreman's record against ATG, since Frazier apparently doesn't qualify.

A good troll always knows when to dip out, though...
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:59 PM   #90
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

What a crap thread, sooo surprising coming from a guy with an Ali avatar...
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