Dempsey v Langford

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Undermining? It is undermining to suggest Langford would win this fight?

Dempsey himself said he'd never beat Langford was he undermining himsef?

kind words for an old fighter or a young fighters words for a legend...Louis also said " he would have never beaten Marciano" and Marciano said he would have not beaten Joe in his prime. I think Langford said Dempsey would be hard to beat so since when do we take a fighters words as gospel without thinking WHY they may have said it. Foreman said he could not have beaten Lennox Lewis but Rahman did and so did McCall so would it be impossible, Nah

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

kind words for an old fighter or a young fighters words for a legend...Louis also said " he would have never beaten Marciano" and Marciano said he would have not beaten Joe in his prime. I think Langford said Dempsey would be hard to beat so since when do we take a fighters words as gospel without thinking WHY they may have said it. Foreman said he could not have beaten Lennox Lewis but Rahman did and so did McCall so would it be impossible, Nah

That doesn't address my post.

You feel it is undermining to pick a Langford victory. Jack himself did this many times. Was he undermining himself?

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

That doesn't address my post.

You feel it is undermining to pick a Langford victory. Jack himself did this many times. Was he undermining himself?

Langford picked Dempsey as the greatest, was he undermining himself?

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Langford picked Dempsey as the greatest, was he undermining himself?

Of course not! That's the point. The accusation of undermining due to picking a Langford victory is ridiculous!

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Of course not! That's the point. The accusation of undermining due to picking a Langford victory is ridiculous!

!!!!!!!!! Yumping Yiminy!!!

[Lord Tywin]

Originally Posted by HomicideHenry

If Dempsey had his doubts, then he was probably right in saying in his own autobiography that Langford was the only man he outright ducked. That being said I think it would have been one helluva fight had it of gone down, but whether Dempsey could have won or not is a whole other discussion. The Langford that was available to him was half blind, and that was the version he ducked. I do believe Dempsey would have beaten Harry Wills, because all Wills was, was a big strong man who came forward and threw essentially an overhand right. Guys like that Dempsey destroyed. Langford is an entirely different ball of wax though.

Wills didnt just come forward. He boxed and timed opponents and was known more for his bodypunching than his overhand right.

Its a myth that Wills just a big, strong guy who came forward and looked for one punch and I dont really know where it got started. Wills was no Firpo and even Firpo had success with Dempsey.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Lord Tywin

Wills didnt just come forward. He boxed and timed opponents and was known more for his bodypunching than his overhand right.

Its a myth that Wills just a big, strong guy who came forward and looked for one punch and I dont really know where it got started. Wills was no Firpo and even Firpo had success with Dempsey.

Wills win over Firpo was viewed as decidedly underwhelming .




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[lufcrazy]

Underwhelming but dominant.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Underwhelming but dominant.

Yes dominant, but unexciting ,maybe like Wlad's recent defence?

Wills said his biggest purse for fighting his black contemporaries was $1,500,and the average was $500.
Doesn't seem as though he was Mr Excitement.

[Cmoyle]

McVey, what is the source of the following statement?

"Langford picked Dempsey as the greatest, was he undermining himself?"

For all I know you'll tell me my own book about Langford but I don't remember it if that's the case and I don't have one at hand. I know Sam was very complimentary of Dempsey, I just don't remember him saying he was the greatest.

I did just find this in some notes at hand, that Sam said about Dempsey in July of 1918:

“What do you all think of this Jack Dempsey fighter?” Sam’s friend asked.

“Say, man,” said Langford, “thar’s one rooster dat looks awfully good to me. Don’t laff, but say, he looks pretty near as good to me as I was when I was at my best. He ain’t one of dem pretty boys. He’s jest a plain ordinary fighter wid a kick in each hand.

But is he big enough to hook up wid big Jess?

Foolish question. He’s big enough to hook up with any man’s fighter. He might even whip me, an’ I’ll give him a chance if he wants it. Bug dis Dempsey’s got a hard punch, no use takin, a very hard punch. He treat Mr. Brennan shamefully an’ he’s liable to muss up big Jess if he don’t bar him like he did me.”

[Vic-JofreBRASIL]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Wills win over Firpo was viewed as decidedly underwhelming .




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I like this line on Firpo:
"Against a man such as Firpo who not only telegraphs his wallops but sends a letter of warning about them"

[Lord Tywin]

I'll take an underwhelming, dominant performance any day of the week over a life and death performance in which fouls and the help of ringsiders figures into helping you win.

Since when is excitement a prerequisite to a title shot? Wills made around $10,000 to face Kid Norfolk though Im not altogether convinced that Wills smaller purse sizes has as much to do with his style as it did with the his skin pigmentation.

He certainly made more money than anyone else on the Greb-Walker card. Two white champions fought a highly anticipated hairraiser on that card. Wills fought a bout he was heavily favored to win as soon as it was signed and made more than anyone.

[Boilermaker]

Originally Posted by Lord Tywin

I'll take an underwhelming, dominant performance any day of the week over a life and death performance in which fouls and the help of ringsiders figures into helping you win.

Since when is excitement a prerequisite to a title shot? Wills made around $10,000 to face Kid Norfolk though Im not altogether convinced that Wills smaller purse sizes has as much to do with his style as it did with the his skin pigmentation.

He certainly made more money than anyone else on the Greb-Walker card. Two white champions fought a highly anticipated hairraiser on that card. Wills fought a bout he was heavily favored to win as soon as it was signed and made more than anyone.

Everything i have read places Wills as the second highest paid fighter of the era. Behind Dempsey of course.

[mcvey]

Originally Posted by mcvey

Yes dominant, but unexciting ,maybe like Wlad's recent defence?

Wills said his biggest purse for fighting his black contemporaries was $1,500,and the average was $500.
Doesn't seem as though he was Mr Excitement.

I have to add a correction . Wills said his highest purse for fighting Langford was $1,200.

Source Boilermaker's post here is the link.

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[mcvey]

Originally Posted by Cmoyle

McVey, what is the source of the following statement?

"Langford picked Dempsey as the greatest, was he undermining himself?"

For all I know you'll tell me my own book about Langford but I don't remember it if that's the case and I don't have one at hand. I know Sam was very complimentary of Dempsey, I just don't remember him saying he was the greatest.

I did just find this in some notes at hand, that Sam said about Dempsey in July of 1918:

“What do you all think of this Jack Dempsey fighter?” Sam’s friend asked.

“Say, man,” said Langford, “thar’s one rooster dat looks awfully good to me. Don’t laff, but say, he looks pretty near as good to me as I was when I was at my best. He ain’t one of dem pretty boys. He’s jest a plain ordinary fighter wid a kick in each hand.

But is he big enough to hook up wid big Jess?

Foolish question. He’s big enough to hook up with any man’s fighter. He might even whip me, an’ I’ll give him a chance if he wants it. Bug dis Dempsey’s got a hard punch, no use takin, a very hard punch. He treat Mr. Brennan shamefully an’ he’s liable to muss up big Jess if he don’t bar him like he did me.”

Clay .Atlanta Constitution June 5th 1922.

Langford was interviewed and asked to give an opinion of Wills chances against Dempsey.

"Well if he ever fights Dempsey, my money will be on the present champion.
Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen.
He punches twice as hard as Jeffries,and is as fast in the ring as Corbett".