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Old 02-13-2013, 02:31 PM   #286
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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Who would you put above him during this time?

eugh, using the word recycled in that era given how often people fought is ridiculous. I mean afterall, near every one of jack's successful defences was against a recycled Greb victim.
I would say Dempsey was the number one fighter and he was perceived as such by the general public.

Will's defeat of Firpo was given a " so what " verdict.

Fulton had beaten Morris, Moran,Kaufman , drawn with Miske, stopped Cowler, Langford,Smith,Jim Flynn, Porky Flynn, Pelkey. Dempsey took him out in lesss than half a minute.. Fulton was red hot when Dempsey burst his bubble.

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Old 02-13-2013, 02:35 PM   #287
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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"Dempsey was hardly prime either , when Tunney boxed his ears off."

True enough. I consider myself somewhat of a health nut myself . I've worked out at least 5-6 days a week in the gym and have played basketball all my life. No matter how well I kept myself in shape there was clearly a noted decline in my performance on the basketball court as a 32 year old versus a 36-37 year old. I noticed my first drop in speed, although slight at age 28, then I lost another gear by age 32, a third by about 35 and it's been a gradual decline ever since. As they say, you can't beat father time. If Dempsey had slipped that much by the age of 32 imagine him 4-5 years later.
I never suggested that Wills was prime in those fights .I simply questioned his appetite for the fray when things got hot.

I'm 65 in November , you don't have to tell me about Father Time.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:51 PM   #288
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

"I never suggested that Wills was prime in those fights .I simply questioned his appetite for the fray when things got hot."

I understood that. But, I still find it hard to imagine anybody who could fight Langford as often as he did and do so well against him could be lacking in that department. But, I can't say that I've spent a lot of time studying Wills career.

At one time I considered tackling a book about him, especially when I found out his widow (in her 90s at that time) was still alive but when I failed to connect with her to setup a possible interview I decided to go another direction. Wills would make for an interesting subject though.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:18 PM   #289
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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I would say Dempsey was the number one fighter and he was perceived as such by the general public.

Will's defeat of Firpo was given " so what " verdict.

Fulton had beaten Morris, Moran,Kaufman , drawn with Miske, stopped Cowler, Langford,Smith,Jim Flynn, Porky Flynn, Pelkey. Dempsey took him out in lesss than half a minute.. Fulton was red hot when Dempsey burst his bubble.
I dont see what Fulton has to do with that so I'll pretend you didn't mention him.

Regarding this, Dempsey was off in Hollywood making it clear he wasn't boxing anymore. So him aside who was your pick for number 1.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:43 PM   #290
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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I dont see what Fulton has to do with that so I'll pretend you didn't mention him.

Regarding this, Dempsey was off in Hollywood making it clear he wasn't boxing anymore. So him aside who was your pick for number 1.

I said Wills best two white opponents were recycled Dempsey victims . You took exception to the term recycled.
The two I referred to were Fulton and Firpo, that was obvious ,as was my reason for mentioning Fulton further.

You can pretend what you like, you can pretend that Dempsey was prime when he was kod by Jim Flynn, if it makes you happy.

I've read Dempsey's two autobiographies and the one by Randy Roberts, in none of them does he state that when he went to Hollywood he had no intention of defending his title again .

Have you information to the contrary?

Dempsey was the reigning champion .
Wills was perceived as having little chance with him. read the link.

Headlined .
"HARRY WILLS NO MATCH FOR DEMPSEY"

ps If it helps, I'll pretend you didn't mention Greb.


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N. B. You like to mention that Dempsey said he did not think he could beat Langford,[how many times is that now?] As though this is somehow portentous and meaningful.

When interviewed as to who would win the upcoming fight between Firpo ,and Wills, Dempsey picked Firpo . He also told Hype Igoe [the interviewee] that if he fought Wills he would, "knock out Wills quicker than I did Fulton". If you give one credence you must give the other the same.

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Old 02-13-2013, 03:49 PM   #291
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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I said Wills best two white oponents were recycled Dempsey victims . You took exception to the term recycled.
The two I referred to were Fulton and Firpo, that was obvious ,as was my reason for mentioning him further. You can pretend what you like, you can pretend that Dempsey was prime when he was kod by Jim Flynn, if it makes you happy. I've read Dempsey's two autobiographies and the one by Randy Roberts, in none of them does he state that when he went to Hollywood he had no intention of defending his title again .

Have you information to the contrary?

Dempsey was the reigning champion .
Wills was perceived as having little chance with him. read the link.

Headlined .
"HARRY WILLS NO MATCH FOR DEMPSEY"

ps If it helps, I'll pretend you didn't mention Greb.


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This doesn't relate to my post at all?

Far too much waffle anyways so I'll redirect you to my point.

Aside from Dempsey (inactive champion) who would you call the best fighter out there?
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:01 PM   #292
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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This doesn't relate to my post at all?

Far too much waffle anyways so I'll redirect you to my point.

Aside from Dempsey (inactive champion) who would you call the best fighter out there?
You never actually address written proof do you?
Why don't you comment on Wills being perceived as distinctly inferior to Dempsey, instead of getting insulting?
Give me a time line ,and I will give you an answer.

1924 Firpo, prior to his fight with Wills was seen as the better of the two, with the benefit of hindsight ,we can clearly see this was not the case.

I think you are getting rather rude now, and that there is no further point in continuing what has been a fairly exhaustive thread.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:07 PM   #293
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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You never actually address written proof do you?
Why don't you comment on Wills being perceived as distinctly inferior to Dempsey, instead of getting insulting?
Give me a time line ,and I will give you an answer.

1924 Firpo, prior to his fight with Wills was seen as the better of the two, with the benefit of hindsight ,we can clearly see this was not the case.

I think you are getting rather rude now, and that there is no further point in continuing what has been a fairly exhaustive thread.
I'm not being rude. When I say waffle I was referring to the points you made that had nothing to do with my post (Fulton and Flynn).

the article was brilliant and gave food for thought which is why I asked outside of Dempsey who is your number 1.

The timeline is between wills-firpo and wills-Sharkey.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:25 PM   #294
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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I'm not being rude. When I say waffle I was referring to the points you made that had nothing to do with my post (Fulton and Flynn).

the article was brilliant and gave food for thought which is why I asked outside of Dempsey who is your number 1.

The timeline is between wills-firpo and wills-Sharkey.
I dont accept your comment , but anyway.
Wills from September 11th 1924 until around March 1925 when Tunney takes it for me. Quite what difference it makes I have no idea.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:30 PM   #295
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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I dont accept your comment , but anyway.
Wills from September 11th 1924 until around March 1925 when Tunney takes it for me. Quite what difference it makes I have no idea.
It makes no difference, what's done is done. My only point was the victory wills scored over firpo established his place as the top active hw. He wasn't very exciting but he was seen as the next best after Dempsey.

You might not accept my comment but I dont see how the Dempsey fights with Flynn and Fulton relate to the above sentiment.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:38 PM   #296
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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"I never suggested that Wills was prime in those fights .I simply questioned his appetite for the fray when things got hot."

I understood that. But, I still find it hard to imagine anybody who could fight Langford as often as he did and do so well against him could be lacking in that department. But, I can't say that I've spent a lot of time studying Wills career.

At one time I considered tackling a book about him, especially when I found out his widow (in her 90s at that time) was still alive but when I failed to connect with her to setup a possible interview I decided to go another direction. Wills would make for an interesting subject though.
Wills was an interesting man, no doubt, but, given the choice ,Langford was the way to go,imo. Still you have time before you.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:11 PM   #297
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

Actually, I'd already written the Langford book at the time. When I abandoned the idea of tackling Wills next I moved on and did Billy Miske instead. But, as you say, there's still time to go back and work on one about Wills at some point. There are still many other possibilities.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:44 PM   #298
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Default Re: Dempsey v Langford

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I can't buy into a judgement of a fighter I haven't seen on film.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:31 AM   #299
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In his prime.
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