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Old 02-10-2008, 11:15 AM   #16
Nick Balsamo
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
I think Shavers was very strong. He bulled Norton, Ali, Holmes, and Cobb around, and they aren't easy to bull.
You may be right, but Ali was a dead man by the time they fought. And if you compare his strenght with fighters with similar one-punch power (Foreman, Liston and maybe Lewis) Shavers wasn't THAT strong.
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Old 02-10-2008, 11:24 AM   #17
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

I still think Shavers was very strong though, maybe not compared to Foreman or Liston, but compared to most others he is IMO.
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Old 02-10-2008, 01:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

floyd patterson
bob foster
hearns (he used his hieght and reach well and could trade on the inside like in barkley II... but still he could get barged around).
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Old 02-10-2008, 01:37 PM   #19
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

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Originally Posted by Nick Balsamo
You may be right, but Ali was a dead man by the time they fought. And if you compare his strenght with fighters with similar one-punch power (Foreman, Liston and maybe Lewis) Shavers wasn't THAT strong.
im not sure he was a bully he came up to you and thru big bombs while pressin gthe action. could he get knokced back yes. jimmy ellis almost flattend him but that was due to chin not his physicality
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Old 02-10-2008, 02:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

Frazier was on ABC's superstars and yes it was against Bob Seagrem that he lost the weight lifting contest. I saw it when I was a kid in the early/mid. 70's. I think it was about 220lbs. that Frazier could not clear but Seagram did. I felt bad for Joe. Don't know the name of the lift but the bar was placed on a rack @ chest level. The competitor would walk up get the weight settled on this chest and then try to raise it overhead, like a clean and jerk without having to do the clean part.

The weightlifting was nothing compared to Frazier in the swimming contest. The man could barely swim. All the other swimmers were out of the pool, showered, shaved, and dressed for dinner before Frazier finished the race. It was so bad that WW of Sports could have replaced the ski jump dude with the swimming Frazier for their agony of defeat part of the intro to the show...
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Old 02-10-2008, 02:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

One of Frazier's problems in the rack press was his lack of technique. Seagram used the proper technique of drives with his legs. I think Frazier saw that and once put his leg back before he tried to press the weight.

I think Frazier also had problems with the bike race.
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Old 02-10-2008, 03:37 PM   #22
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

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One of Frazier's problems in the rack press was his lack of technique. Seagram used the proper technique of drives with his legs. I think Frazier saw that and once put his leg back before he tried to press the weight.

I think Frazier also had problems with the bike race.

Joe wasn't the best all-rounder was he? Vaguely remember the bike race. He got last place in that too, didn't he. WTF were they riding on big Huffy's for? Could of at least been on a Schwinn.
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Old 02-10-2008, 03:40 PM   #23
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

What shape was Frazier in for that show? Was he in fighting shape, or did he have a little chub around the waist?
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Old 02-10-2008, 03:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

Alexis Arguello for me. Unbelievably hard hitter but just looking at him you would think just a slap would send him reeling.
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Old 02-10-2008, 03:42 PM   #25
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Who let the old man out of his room?
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Old 02-10-2008, 04:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

Eugene"Cyclone"Hart, Mark Breyland, Felix Trinadad,Gerry Cooney
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Old 02-10-2008, 04:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

Frazier used NO technique in the lift. It's all about pure leg drive.
Frazier just used his arms and was off balance and everything.
If Joe knew the proper technique, he probably would have won.
I'm surprised they didn't at least have someone show the proper
technique before they competed. The show was about 1973.
They started with 120 and Joe just pressed it like nothing.
By about 175, Joe was way off balance and just pressing it with NO
back support like a normal military press in a gym. He was standing
there pressing it awkwardly and all he needed to do was drive with the
legs to complete the lift.

By the way, I've heard nothing about this later bench press thing
that was mentioned.....
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Old 02-10-2008, 04:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

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Who let the old man out of his room?
A lot of people here are asuming that skinny fighters are weak physicaly which may not be the case.

I knew a guy who was 5' 8'' and like a stick who could push 300 lbs on virtualy and lift.
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:30 PM   #29
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

I seriously doubt that any of Frazier's opponents would categorize him as not being physically strong. He was able to make both Quarry and Bonavena give ground. During the FOTC, he grabbed Ali with both gloves and yanked him off the ropes into center ring. Foreman could make virtually any other boxer look strength deficient, but even in Frazier's ten round draw with Jumbo Cummings, there were times when Joe held his own with his bodybuilding opponent. Until he lost his title to Foreman, Frazier actually did enjoy a reputation for having highly functional physical strength. Lifting hugh slabs of meat in a slaughterhouse can lead to a result like that.

Concerning Joe's weightlifting performance in the Superstars Competition, it might be worth pointing out that an old injury prevented him from completely straightening out his left arm. This was actually an aid to the development of his hook, but probably offered no assistance in getting a heavy weight over his head. Years later, Vito Antuofemo failed to distinguish himself in the same weightlifting competition, and nobody has ever accused him of being weak.

Earnie Shavers grew up hoisting bales of hay on a farm. Later, he dabbled in weight training for boxing. He also competed in the Superstars weightlifting event, and while he didn't win, he did not embarrass himself either. (In fact, one of Earnie's successful lifts was displayed in the opening montage of subsequent Superstars installments.)

Floyd Patterson competed with Ingo on a retirees edition of Superstars, and he appeared to have very good strength for his size.

The questions about Arguello's physical strength are also misplaced, I believe. Jim Watt and Ray Mancini were two of the most physically strong world class lightweights of their era, and Alexis was no cutie who outmanuevered his foes like SRR and Pep. When Arguello dethroned Watt in London, it was the defending champion taking all the backwards steps. Boom-Boom hardly mauled Alexis around the way Antuofermo did Hagler in their 15 round draw. Just as Tyson may not have been as strong as he looked, I suspect Arguello was much stronger than his height and weight would suggest. With the possible exception of Marcel, I can't think of any instance where he was shoved around in the trenches. He had very much of a wiry look about him in the lower weight classes. By the time he starched Kevin Rooney and Billy Costello, he'd gotten big enough to look like he could handle any boxer his size in a wrestling contest.

Bob Foster did look utterly spindly though, and Frazier made him look especially weak. Nor could Foster stand up to the very wiry Ernie Terrell (who himself was strong enough to stand up to a peak Ali for 15 rounds). Mark Breland is a classic answer for this thread.

Ray Robinson was probably stronger than he's commonly given credit for. The man could take a tremendous punch, something which might not be expected of a weakling. Like Ali, he probably simply chose not to use his strength, but let his opponents wear themselves down by expending their own. (Rocky Marciano, of all people, cautioned against wasting physical strength in this way.)

Bob Fitzsimmons was a blacksmith, which gave him obscene upper body strength for his height and weight. The legs may have been stilts (as Sullivan characterized them), but not the top half of his frame.
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Old 02-10-2008, 06:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: Weakest, but hardest hitting people of all time

Quote:
Originally Posted by sthomas
Frazier was on ABC's superstars and yes it was against Bob Seagrem that he lost the weight lifting contest. I saw it when I was a kid in the early/mid. 70's. I think it was about 220lbs. that Frazier could not clear but Seagram did. I felt bad for Joe. Don't know the name of the lift but the bar was placed on a rack @ chest level. The competitor would walk up get the weight settled on this chest and then try to raise it overhead, like a clean and jerk without having to do the clean part.

The weightlifting was nothing compared to Frazier in the swimming contest. The man could barely swim. All the other swimmers were out of the pool, showered, shaved, and dressed for dinner before Frazier finished the race. It was so bad that WW of Sports could have replaced the ski jump dude with the swimming Frazier for their agony of defeat part of the intro to the show...
Interesting stuff, Weight lifting is allot of technical especially overhead stuff, with the right technique you could double your lifts in short time if you havent lifted before
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