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Old 01-21-2013, 03:20 PM   #16
Loudon
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

shadow111,

Quote:
I agree with you Loudon. He did look awful against Glazewski. Something wasn't right in his preparation to the fight. he looked exhausted as he entered the ring. however, the Roy Jones that fight Bernard Hopkins in 2010, despite losing the decision, in that fight Roy still had it.
Hi mate, welcome to the forum.

When I saw him train for the fight, he looked pretty sharp, all things considered. I was very impressed when I saw him at the weigh in too. He looked in great shape. He was far too heavy against Lebedev, and he was still big against Alexander. His new trainer Tom Yankello got him in really good condition, or so it seemed. But like you say, he was awful, and his balance was all off. In between each round, Tom was yelling at him to get some life into his legs.

Quote:
that was at Light Heavyweight, but after that Roy gained weight and moved up to cruiser weight and hasn't been the same since. He looked okay against Lebedev until the very end, but didn't have the same footspeed he had against Hopkins. I think Roy is doing too much promtion and not dedicating himself to his craft. he's getting too involved in the media side of boxing. Roy is great as a commentator, but he can't do all that and still train properly at his age.
He did look ok against Lebedev, and he hadn't fought for 13 months. He'd also had a knee injury after the Hopkins fight, and that's why he was so heavy against Lebedev. He's always been in peak condition, but he was fat for lebedev, even at the weigh in. You maybe right about him being sidetracked, but he's apparently more than happy with Tom, and he's had minor knee surgery I believe.

Quote:
Roy did so good against Hopkins because he was motivated to take Hopkins seriously and tried to pick his spots. he lost the decision although I thought it was very close. Roy started landing on Hopkins late in that fight, despite dirty fighting from Hopkins all night.
That was one of the worst fights I've ever seen in my life! I honestly couldn't judge what kind of shape he was in, because it was so bad. I thought it was going to be declared a no contest at one point. Watching Bernard "I'm from the tough streets of Philly" Hopkins, writhing around in agony after a little tap to the back of his head, was embarrassing. What a joker! It was even worse than his antics against Dawson.

Quote:
for the last 2 years, Roy has been saying he wants to get one of the sanctioned cruiserweight belts, but i think due to his recent performance is having trouble getting title fights. at this point, i think that's not due to whether he wins or loses, but how he looks.
I don't think he's got a chance of winning any version of the title.

Quote:
Do i want Roy to keep fighting? i did in 2010. i felt like an improved version of the LW 2010 Roy could still turn back the clock and pull an upset or two with the right matchmaking. But now i'm not sure sure. now Roy seems to have aged a lot in the last two years. The Collins fight is interesting but Collins has been retired for 15 years. But I'm a die hard Roy fan, and whatever he decides to do, I'll watch Roy go blow by blow with whoever to the bitter end no matter what.
I can see where your coming from, but he really struggled to hit 175 against Hopkins. After Hop, he knew he couldn't make it again, without serious difficulty. His whole Cruiserweight quest is just an excuse to prolong his career. He never gave it a seconds thought when he went to heavy. Even if he doesn't fight Collins, he'll still definitely fight someone within the next 4 months.

Nice debating with you.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:48 AM   #18
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:56 AM   #19
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

Joke of a fight, like a pantomime. Boxing doesnt need this crap
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Roy did mess him around a little,.
Roy messed him around a lot, especially from 95-97.


After Collins called out Jones to his face after the Frazier fight Jones gave Levin the green light to make the Collins fight. Levin would contact Collins who would tell the press and Sky TV that he was coming out of retrement to make the fight. Levin would go off to work out the legal deal and Collins would start to look for a venue and a put together a training camp.

It was then that Dibella would say I dont know what Collins is talking about. Jones had no intention of fighting Collins, behind the backs of Levin and Collins him and Murad cut a deal with R.Johnson that left both Levin and Collins looking like idiots.

That was why Levin would walk out of Jones camp a few months later. Stating that Jones is too much like his father Dibella would offer Collins the Calzaghe fight as a way to salvage the situation.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

Zod,

Quote:
messed him around a lot, especially from 95-97.


After Collins called out Jones to his face after the Frazier fight Jones gave Levin the green light to make the Collins fight. Levin would contact Collins who would tell the press and Sky TV that he was coming out of retrement to make the fight. Levin would go off to work out the legal deal and Collins would start to look for a venue and a put together a training camp.
Hi mate,

I can only assume, that Roy did that because Collins had challenged him out in his hometown in front of his fans. If he gave Levin the green light, he must have had the intention of going ahead originally. But we both know that boxing is a business. Murad's a successful businesman, and we know from your links that the bigger fight for everyone concerned, was a unification against Reggie Johnson.

Quote:
It was then that Dibella would say I dont know what Collins is talking about. Jones had no intention of fighting Collins, behind the backs of Levin and Collins him and Murad cut a deal with R.Johnson that left both Levin and Collins looking like idiots.
If Murad and De Bella had offered Roy the Reggie fight, which is obviously what happened, then it was obvious he was going to ditch Collins. Although he obviously should have told Levin. I think if Roy hadn't have had any intentions of fighting Steve, then I don't think he'd have given Levin the green light in the first place.

You've got to admire Steve for going to Pensacola. I have a huge amount of respect for him. But the fact is, he was a retired 168 fighter that brought nothing much to the table. It wouldn't have been a big fight in the U.S. Roy had the chance to unify at 175. Anyone in Roy's shoes would have done the same. Reggie was clearly the bigger fight.

Quote:
That was why Levin would walk out of Jones camp a few months later. Stating that Jones is too much like his father Dibella would offer Collins the Calzaghe fight as a way to salvage the situation.
Levin had every right to be angry. But we know from your links, that Lou didn't want the Collins fight on HBO at that time. He wanted Johnson instead, because it was a bigger fight. He wanted Collins to fight Joe C, with the winner fighting Roy, if Roy was successful.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:21 AM   #22
general zod
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
. Murad's a successful businesman, and we know from your links that the bigger fight for everyone concerned, was a unification against Reggie Johnson.

95-97



The Collins-Jones negotiations part 1:



Frank ****** made offers to Jones on behalf of Collins:
Quote:
Steve Collins last night issued a world-title challenge to American superstar Roy Jones and vowed: "I'll prove I'm the best - but I'm not hanging around for ever."

The Irishman's promoter Frank ****** has made a pounds 2million-plus offer for a unification contest between WBO super-middleweight champion Collins and IBF king Jones.
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Quote:
Jones, 28, said: "I would love to fight Collins because I rate him as an excellent boxer and I watch all his fights. There is no way he would beat me, but I respect his skills. Maybe one day we will get it together but right now I'm concentrating on my next fight and then I want to take on Virgil Hill.

"If Collins wants to fight me, then fine. But he has to get in the queue.

"I know my managers offered him around $2million last November and Collins refused, saying it was too little money. That shows he's not telling the whole story.

Collins scoffed at Jones' claims and said promoter ****** had not even received a reply from Jones' management after a multi-million pound offer was tabled last week.


But American TV are interested. Lou DiBella, a spokes- man for HBO, said: "Collins deserves his chance. Discussions are happening."
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In 1997 Collins said he wasnt motivated to fight anymore and announced his retirement. Saying he wanted to only fight Jones and no one else

Jones would then make him an offer:

Quote:
DUBLIN, Ireland (Oct 8, 1997 - 16:05 EDT) -- WBC light-heavyweight
champion Roy Jones Jr. wants to fight Ireland's
Steve Collins, who announced his surprise retirement last week.

Collins, the former WBO super-middleweight champ, said he regretted
never having fought the American champion.

Jones' spokesman and publicist, Greg Fritz, said Wednesday the fight can
still happen.

"Roy has wanted to fight Steve for some time and if the money is right
he will," Fritz said. "He wants Steve to come out of
retirement to fight him."

Fritz said Jones would have to get $5 million for the fight.

"We are prepared to come to Dublin, Belfast, Boston, wherever he wants
to fight," Fritz said. "At this moment, I'm just waiting
for his call. The fight can be made."

In the meantime, Fritz said, negotiations are underway for Jones to
fight Germany's WBO light-heavyweight champion Dariusz
Michalczewski.
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Collins was skeptical of the offer:
Quote:
Steve Collins has ****ed a sceptical eyebrow at the pounds 3million comeback offer from Roy Jones.

"If they are serious they can write to me my solicitor or my promoter," said the recently retired WBO super middleweight champion.

"I retired last week and I am not interested in the publicity stunts," added the Dubliner who fought 39 pro fights, lost only three and stopped opponents on 21 occasions.

"Asking for $5million, a totally unrealistic sum, shows that Jones does not really want the fight. It's just talk," said Collins.


Less than a week after Steve made a tearful farewell to the game that has probably netted him pounds 2m, the Jones camp came up with their offer.

But Collins insisted yesterday: "I retired last week, I am still retired and I am enjoying being retired, so I am not impressed with this nonsense."

At 33 Collins has lost his appetite for boxing and after ten tough years in the pro ranks has had enough.
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Quote:
"Normal Business Resumed" read the headlines. Well, I'm afraid it's true. Roy is back to his old self. The same old self that kept us guessing as to whether he could beat Nigel Benn when both were recognized as the super middleweight division's top guns. The same old self that really didn't want to face Benn's conqueror Steve Collins but instead of saying so blamed the fact that he wasn't getting his ridiculous purse demand of $5m. for the fight.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:25 AM   #23
general zod
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
. Murad's a successful businesman, and we know from your links that the bigger fight for everyone concerned, was a unification against Reggie Johnson.
Part 2
99
Quote:
January 15, 1999
Jones clash heads for KO
by Harry Mullan and Wayne Higgins

PROFESSIONAL boxing is a world of hidden agendas, lies and bluff, but the confusion surrounding Steve Collins' date with Roy Jones is setting new standards.
It is hard to believe that a shrewd and streetwise pragmatist like Collins, a man who has always cherished his own reputation, would run the risk of exposing himself to public ridicule by announcing the fight was on if there was any doubt about it, but if we are to believe Murad Muhammad, the American's promoter, this is precisely what has happened.
Mohammad insists that there is no question of Jones facing Collins in Las Vegas, Dublin or anywhere than in the Irishman's imagination. He refutes the support which Jones' manager, Stanley Levin, has given to the fight, and says that Levin must either have exceeded his authority to speak for the fighter, or else has been misquoted or misinterpreted.
Yet, Levin, a Florida lawyer, who gives the impression of operating on a rather higher moral plain than is customary in this business, stands by his word. There is clearly a split in the ranks, and one possibly significant aspect of the affair is that Mohammad is trying to steer Jones into a light-heavyweight championship unification match with IBF title holder, Reggie Johnson. Jones already holds the WBC and WBA versions.
When Johnson beat Collins for the middleweight title in New Jersey a few years ago, Mohammad was involved as Johnson's representative. Their current relationship is unknown, but the cynical viewpoint — which is often the most accurate and rewarding — could be that he is pushing for the Jones v Johnson match with the tempting prospect of earning from it in both capacities, as promoter and through his "piece" of Johnson, if he has such an arrangement.
Such deals, known as double dipping, are commonplace in American boxing circles.
The American press reported the announcement that the Collins fight is on, but without any comment from Jones or Mohammad.
The match would have a degree of credibility in America, where Collins is still well remembered and accorded more respect than most European fighters are accustomed to receiving over there.
Jones is known to be growing increasingly bored with the lack of challenges on offer for him, and whatever doubts about the Collins match there may be in the Florida camp, they are unlikely to be coming from the man himself. As always, though, the money men will have the last word. If Jones' TV backers at HBO want the fight it will happen: if they don't, Collins faces the prospect of an excruciatingly embarrassing public climb down.
The latter may still be the case.
HBO chief, Lou Dibella, last night insisted there had been no contact between himself and either the Collins or Jones camp on the possibility of a fight.

Dibella, who as chief of the network to which Jones is contracted, would have to okay such a deal, said in a telephone conference: "There would be little or no interest in Collins v Jones in America. Collins has not fought in a year and a half and although he was a very good champion there would not be a great deal of interest in him in America at the moment. If he wants to fight someone else before Roy Jones then interest may pick up.
"I would like to see Collins fight Joe Calzaghe, who holds Collins' former super middleweight crown. Calzaghe is an exciting fighter, whom we have earmarked to fight Roy Jones at some stage. At the moment Reggie Johnson, the IBF light heavyweight champion, is the one who I feel most deserves a shot at Jones. However, if Collins was to fight Calazaghe possibly on a Jones undercard, then the winner could meet Jones in their next contest," said Dibella.
The likelihood of Collins fighting anyone but Jones is slim, given that he has consistently said that he would only come out of retirement to meet Jones.
Dibella said he had spoken to Murad Muhamad, but had not had any contact with either Collins or his solicitor, Brian Delahunt, when they were in Florida last weekend.
Collins' solicitor, Delahunt, said yesterday that he had been talking with Stanley Levin, Jones' attorney, regarding the contest, and that negotiations had been taking place between those two.
On the possibility of Jones and Collins, he said there would be no further announcements until negotiations took place between Jones' camp and Collins' camp with HBO.
(link dead)
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:30 AM   #24
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

part 3

Quote:
“He stopped training, he stopped listening,” said Levin, who For the record I have never bought into the whole he lost 14 lbs shasn’t spoken to Jones in two years though they both live in Pensacola, Fla. “Back in ’98 or ’99, I left him in 2000, I told him, ‘You’re not hearing me anymore.’ Every time I tried talking to him, he was acting like I was his enemy. He didn’t want to know the truth. I put 15, 16 years in with him. What it took for me to walk away from him, you have no idea.
(link dead)

Quote:
“Stanley and Fred had set up Square Ring to be a promotional company that Roy ran. It was his company but there came a point where Stanley got very concerned with the decisions Roy was making. Roy felt there needed to be other promoters involved like Murad Muhammad. Stanley felt he wasn’t getting access to all the numbers. He felt he wasn’t being allowed to do his job to protect Roy. Unlike most guys in boxing, he wasn’t going to stay just to stay, so he left.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:34 AM   #25
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

Why Roy?

Why Steve?

My 12 year old self is crying right now at the thought of these 2 getting into a ring for a glorified circus act!
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:45 PM   #26
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

Zod,

Hi mate, thanks for the reply.


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These quotes below are hilarious. Who did Collins think he was? Roy had beaten nobody? Collins beat a faded Benn and Eubank, and only held the WBO belt that wasn't respected back then.

Quote:
"They are building him up, but to me he hasn't proved himself to be a great fighter yet. He hasn't beaten anybody that's great, in my opinion. He's beaten some old fighters or guys who've gone past their best. But he's never actually beaten guys at the top of their game.
Quote:
"I'd say I have. I reckon I've fought the best around throughout my career - and I think my record proves I'm the better fighter.
The above article is from mid to late 96, after Roy had fought Eric Lucas.

After this article, Roy fought Bryant Brannon and then decided to move to 175. He had no chance of unifying at 168, because as mentioned previously, The Levin's were reluctant to deal with King. So he went to 175 for a fresh challenge.

Collins thought that he was somebody he wasn't. Why would Roy have been bothered about fighting him? Unless it was for a ridiculous sum, there was nothing to gain. Collins wasn't big in the U.S. and obviously his WBO belt wouldn't have meant anything to Roy. So it was either move up to 175, or stay and fight Collins. He chose to go to 175.



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Quote:
"Whether it is Jones himself or his management playing these games I [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], but I'm fed up with everyone saying he's the best pound for pounder in the world when he won't even fight me. I beat Eubank, who beat Benn who beat McClelland, so surely I'm the best there is. The Yanks are believing Jones' own hype."
Another ridiculous quote from Steve.

This article was written just before Roy's first fight with Griffin.

Roy was at 175 at this point. He said after Griffin, he wanted to fight Virgil Hill.

Again, why would Roy have wanted to have fought Collins at that point?

Collins didn't even fight at 175.


Quote:
In 1997 Collins said he wasnt motivated to fight anymore and announced his retirement. Saying he wanted to only fight Jones and no one else

Jones would then make him an offer:
Quote:
Collins was skeptical of the offer:
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I agree that $5M was a ridiculous offer. It's clear that Roy had no real interest in fighting him. The above article was just after he'd knocked out Griffin in the rematch. He then went onto fight Hill, and then he won the WBA belt against De Valle. The article also mentions that they were trying to negotiate for DM.

Where was Steve at this point? Again, why would Roy have wanted to fight him?

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

Zod,

Part 2.

Quote:
January 15, 1999
Jones clash heads for KO
by Harry Mullan and Wayne Higgins

PROFESSIONAL boxing is a world of hidden agendas, lies and bluff, but the confusion surrounding Steve Collins' date with Roy Jones is setting new standards.
It is hard to believe that a shrewd and streetwise pragmatist like Collins, a man who has always cherished his own reputation, would run the risk of exposing himself to public ridicule by announcing the fight was on if there was any doubt about it, but if we are to believe Murad Muhammad, the American's promoter, this is precisely what has happened.
Mohammad insists that there is no question of Jones facing Collins in Las Vegas, Dublin or anywhere than in the Irishman's imagination. He refutes the support which Jones' manager, Stanley Levin, has given to the fight, and says that Levin must either have exceeded his authority to speak for the fighter, or else has been misquoted or misinterpreted.
Yet, Levin, a Florida lawyer, who gives the impression of operating on a rather higher moral plain than is customary in this business, stands by his word. There is clearly a split in the ranks, and one possibly significant aspect of the affair is that Mohammad is trying to steer Jones into a light-heavyweight championship unification match with IBF title holder, Reggie Johnson. Jones already holds the WBC and WBA versions.
When Johnson beat Collins for the middleweight title in New Jersey a few years ago, Mohammad was involved as Johnson's representative. Their current relationship is unknown, but the cynical viewpoint — which is often the most accurate and rewarding — could be that he is pushing for the Jones v Johnson match with the tempting prospect of earning from it in both capacities, as promoter and through his "piece" of Johnson, if he has such an arrangement.
Such deals, known as double dipping, are commonplace in American boxing circles.
The American press reported the announcement that the Collins fight is on, but without any comment from Jones or Mohammad.
The match would have a degree of credibility in America, where Collins is still well remembered and accorded more respect than most European fighters are accustomed to receiving over there.
Jones is known to be growing increasingly bored with the lack of challenges on offer for him, and whatever doubts about the Collins match there may be in the Florida camp, they are unlikely to be coming from the man himself. As always, though, the money men will have the last word. If Jones' TV backers at HBO want the fight it will happen: if they don't, Collins faces the prospect of an excruciatingly embarrassing public climb down.
The latter may still be the case.
HBO chief, Lou Dibella, last night insisted there had been no contact between himself and either the Collins or Jones camp on the possibility of a fight.
Dibella, who as chief of the network to which Jones is contracted, would have to okay such a deal, said in a telephone conference: "There would be little or no interest in Collins v Jones in America. Collins has not fought in a year and a half and although he was a very good champion there would not be a great deal of interest in him in America at the moment. If he wants to fight someone else before Roy Jones then interest may pick up.
"I would like to see Collins fight Joe Calzaghe, who holds Collins' former super middleweight crown. Calzaghe is an exciting fighter, whom we have earmarked to fight Roy Jones at some stage. At the moment Reggie Johnson, the IBF light heavyweight champion, is the one who I feel most deserves a shot at Jones. However, if Collins was to fight Calazaghe possibly on a Jones undercard, then the winner could meet Jones in their next contest," said Dibella.
The likelihood of Collins fighting anyone but Jones is slim, given that he has consistently said that he would only come out of retirement to meet Jones.
Dibella said he had spoken to Murad Muhamad, but had not had any contact with either Collins or his solicitor, Brian Delahunt, when they were in Florida last weekend.
Collins' solicitor, Delahunt, said yesterday that he had been talking with Stanley Levin, Jones' attorney, regarding the contest, and that negotiations had been taking place between those two.
On the possibility of Jones and Collins, he said there would be no further announcements until negotiations took place between Jones' camp and Collins' camp with HBO.
This is what we discussed last week.

Collins went to the Frazier fight, and climbed in the ring afterwards. Roy obviously gave Levin the green light afterwards to make the fight.

Obviously while that was happening, Murad swooped in, and offered Roy a much bigger fight, against Reggie Johnson to unify at 175. I don't condone Roy's behaviour, and he should have told Levin.

Nobody at HBO wanted the Collins fight, and I don't think many fans did either, apart from Steve's own supporters. It wouldn't have been a big fight. Why fight a retired 168 guy, when you can unify at 175?

The fight could never have happened anyway, because we know that Collins collapsed whilst training for Joe.

Again, I don't condone Roy's behaviour, and I've got an enormous amount of respect for Collins, but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Had Collins been a major belt holder at 168, or 175, or a mandatory and Roy had avoided him, then it would be a different matter.

But other than a big sum of money, why would Roy have wanted to fight Steve? He had nothing to gain by fighting him. I think we can safely say that the $5M was simply said to get rid of him, unless it was to lose muscle to drop back to 168, and/or to fight in Ireland etc, which the article doesn't specify.

I sympathise with Steve, but I don't call it a duck, because I certainly don't think that Roy feared losing to him. I think Roy dismissed him.

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:25 PM   #28
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

Zod,

Part 3.

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That was very sad to read.

Stan obviously found it hard with Murad being involved. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

But Roy obviously thought that he needed Murad on board.

It was a real shame. I know that Fred continued to work with Roy for a while though. He worked in conjuction with Murad for the Ruiz fight.


Thanks a lot for taking the time to post up those links, it's very much appreciated.

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Old 01-31-2013, 12:14 PM   #29
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Stanley Levin:
Quote:
LAS VEGAS, July 28 – They can’t watch. They were too close to Roy Jones Jr. for too many years to look at him now, in Boise, Idaho, of all places, fighting Prince Badi Ajamu of all people, another sad ending and it’s not just age, say his former buddies and lawyers, Stan Levin and John Hornewer. Roy Jones Jr. was changing before he got athlete old.

“He stopped training, he stopped listening,” said Levin, who hasn’t spoken to Jones in two years though they both live in Pensacola, Fla. “Back in ’98 or ’99, I left him in 2000, I told him, ‘You’re not hearing me anymore.’ Every time I tried talking to him, he was acting like I was his enemy. He didn’t want to know the truth. I put 15, 16 years in with him. What it took for me to walk away from him, you have no idea.

“There was a time I’d rather watch him in the gym than in a fight, he was so brilliant, and to see what’s happening now, I just can’t watch it. I remember he used to put a harness on his head with weights attached and he’d work his neck muscles so he could better take a punch. He stopped doing that years ago. He stopped going to the gym.

“I remember when he was 14, Roy would’ve destroyed guys like Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson. They wouldn’t have laid a glove on him. I can’t watch him fight now. He’s a shadow of what he used to be.”

“I still haven’t watched the third Tarver fight, I refuse,” said Hornewer, who also did legal work for Lennox Lewis. “I’m so proud of Lennox, he did what he did and got out on top. To see Roy like this, he’s so far off course. He doesn’t know how to get his old self back to dignify the ending.

“I know I’ll be peeking at the bottom of the screen at the crawl (as ESPN gives the sports news) hoping that there’s nothing terrible to report. The guy who worried about becoming another Gerald McClellan is fighting someone who lost to Rico Hoye and I’m afraid for him. I hope to god he wins, but I won’t buy the fight.”

Levin, who with his multimillionaire brother, Fred, took the hometown hero under their wings, said he doesn’t know what changed Jones. Maybe it was the “rappers” element the fighter started hanging with, Levin can’t be sure. Maybe it was Roy Jones Sr., whom the son regarded as not only as a trainer, but a tyrant.

“He’s got a lot of his dad in him, which is, ‘I’m right and the rest of the world is wrong.’ His father trained a lot of guys, and he would strip them of their personalities so he could build what he wanted.”

After years and years of estrangement, Jones brought his father back to his corner for his last fight, the third one with Tarver. At the time, both Hornewer and Levin thought it a good idea. Jones, though, has subsequent to the loss explained that his father’s presence was a hindrance, so much so that he may have subconsciously not wanted to win because he didn’t want to give his father any glory.

“I told Roy that it was good that at least he got back together with Big Roy,” said Hornewer. “He said, ‘It was good, but it was bad.’”

Hornewer, a frequent ringside photographer, had his credentials canceled by Jones for the first Tarver fight – the lawyer, who walked away from Jones years before, had begun doing legal work for Tarver. Hornewer thought Jones believed that up close, he’d be able to advise Tarver during the bout – and never mind that his opponent already had a trainer named Buddy McGirt.

Yet, he said if Jones had called him to be at ringside tomorrow night, “I’d have bought a plane ticket and flown out.

“He gave all the people who were with him the ride of their lives. He was the best fighter I ever saw. Remember, I wasn’t around for Muhammad Ali or Sugar Ray Leonard, but I honestly think Roy was better than Leonard. He was so incredibly talented.”

“I loved that kid,” said Levin. “This man I don’t like at all. But I know underneath there is still a soft, caring kid.”

Levin, who suffers from all sorts of physical ailments, often wears a cervical collar in the style of many a genius. He remembers one day telling Roy that he was going to drop by the gym only to hear, “Not if you’re wearing that collar.”

Jones, whom I once called the “conscience of boxing” for his efforts on behalf of the injured Gerald McClellan and his work with Muhammad Ali for tolerance, raises pit bulls and fighting ****s. Levin said “that was a side of him I never understood, a side I shut out.”

He said Jones was “doing a lot of things he swore he’d never do. He told me if lost it, he was through, he wasn’t going to hang on. He’s going to get hurt, I’m afraid.

“If I had been in control of his career, I’d have had him retire after he won that heavyweight title (against John Ruiz in 2003), it would have been, adios, goodbye,” said Levin.

Hornewer said “Roy had a very special, exceptional style that depended on speed and reflexes. The big question back then was what about his chin and I’d answer I hope I never find out.

“Now this guy (Prince Badi Ajamu) has a chance, a guy who lost to Rico Hoye. It’s hard to watch him get beat by fighters who aren’t great fighters. Fifty percent of the old Roy would’ve beaten Glen Johnson.

“But then I never thought the people around him, like the Levins, would not be around. There are certain people who’ll tell you the truth. There’s no one around him now like that.”

“I wish,” said Levin, “there was some way of shaking him and saying, ‘Look at what you’re doing.’ But it’s not going to happen with the people around him now.”

Hornewer said he expected Jones to go out fast and try to overwhelm the Prince from Camden, N.J. But he acknowledged that opponents will be braver against the faded star, knowing that if they hang in with him, there’s always a chance they can hurt him later.

“It makes me feel bad about the sport, about Roy’s legacy,” said Hornewer.

His legacy has already been compromised by the Tarver left hand that knocked him cold in the second round of their second fight. Fights like tomorrow night’s don’t mean anything more than, say, Muhammad Ali’s finale against Trevor Berbick or Joe Frazier’s against Jumbo Cummings. History is very forgiving; punches to the brain, however, are not.

I remember that night outdoors at Caesars Palace when the pathetic ghost of Ali was battered by Larry Holmes. I had just finished my New York Times story and was closing my computer before rushing inside to the post-fight press conference. I had no doubt that Holmes would win; in fact, I was silently hoping he would, knowing that his legacy would not have been able to withstand a loss to the faded Ali, who on the other hand had already accomplished so much as to forever remain a ring immortal.

Even so, as I replayed the embarrassing performance by Ali, tears ran down my cheeks. The unhappy ending is a common occurrence in boxing, I’m afraid.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:17 PM   #30
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr in talks with Steve Collins

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
Stanley Levin:


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Thanks a lot for posting that, I've heard most of it before. It was very interesting, but sad at the same time. I'd love to know what Stan thought of Alton Merkerson. I wonder if he though he'd done a great job with Roy, or whether another trainer may have have gotten more from him?

Thanks again.
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