If Vitali or Wlad beats Pulev/Povetkin/Fury, will he rank above Lennox Lewis?

[Cael]

Originally Posted by tezel8764

Vitali was just the icing on the cake of an already illustrious career.

http://static.boxrec.com/wiki/6/6a/H...ewisPoster.jpg

Holyfield win is superior to any singular win on Wladimir's resume. He was the lineal champion. Cael you have some weird logic; Terms of Ability & Risk? Holyfield was still of the elite at that particular time it just so happened that Lewis beat him in impressive fashion both outings.

Only Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis and Larry Holmes beat more rated Heavyweight contenders/champions.

Great Heavyweights vs Top 10 Opposition (sorted by wins):

Muhammad Ali: 32-5
Joe Louis: 30-3
Larry Holmes: 20-5
Lennox Lewis: 15-2-1
Mike Tyson: 13-4
Rocky Marciano: 11-0
Evander Holyfield: 11-7-2
Joe Frazier: 10-4
Sonny Liston: 8-4
George Foreman: 7-5

yeah that win of lennox over Holyifeld was soooo superior to everything Wlad ever done that holyfield went on to get schooled by Wlad's leftover.


...and im the one who has the weird logic.

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by On The Money

The 80's were a weaker era, you had better Americans and obviously Tyson but didn't have any Eastern Europeans. Overall the 80's were worse. As far as 02 Tyson being better than anyone on Wlad's resume, irrelevant as Wlad KO's that Tyson anyway. And he struggled a bit with the likes of Nilesen and Botha, so I doubt he walks through Peter, Byrd, Haye or Inbragimov. In fact he might get KO'd.

You stupid? Middleweights, nobody's and big stiff robots fought and had success in the 00s.

[Man_Machine]

To say the 80's was a weaker era, defies belief. Today - Anyone (tinker, tailor, soldier, butcher, plumber, chef, milkman, dogwalker) could fight for the Heavyweight title.

The division is a disgrace and has been for many years now.

[Rock0052]

Originally Posted by DoctorIron

Lewis in his 15th pro fight fought 35-0 Champion Gary Mason. Who was known as a deadly ko Artist and his record matched that claim. 99% KO Ratio.




Vitali in his 15th fight fought Alben Belinski. Who wasn't even a real boxer.

The guy had five fights at the time he fought Vitali and finished his career with 9 total fights.
The guy was an account and actually boxed for fun.

Wlad in his 15th fight was fighting some 17-37 journeyman.
(ironically in his 24 or 25th fight another journeyman beat him)

There you go again. How could I ever forget the legacy of Gary "Shavers on Steroids" Mason

Bottom line is this: Lennox's record against fighters who were top 10 at some point in their careers was 21-2-1. His record against men who were champions or rated 1 or 2 in Ring's year end ratings is 8-2-1. If it compels you, throw in the 2nd Holyfield fight as a win instead of a draw.

Wlad's is 20-2 using the former criteria, 8-0 against the latter.

Wlad's got to get back to fighting top contenders and beating them, which also means the top contenders need to nut up and take their shot. If he does that, he'll surpass Lewis on longevity.

[On The Money]

Originally Posted by Man_Machine

To say the 80's was a weaker era, defies belief. Today - Anyone (tinker, tailor, soldier, butcher, plumber, chef, milkman, dogwalker) could fight for the Heavyweight title.

The division is a disgrace and has been for many years now.

Anybody did fight for HW title in eighties. Why do you think a 20 year old kid became champ and for the most part beat down guys ten years older? Why do you think Frank Bruno got four goes at it? The era was shit that's why. It got better in the 90's once everybody realised the money on offer, but the 80;s was nothing great. Unless you're pushing 40 you should have no opinion anyway, you hardly remember the 80's.

[Montero]

By the time Wlad retires he'll have over 70 wins, add the WBC to his collection, be the longtime running lineal champ, undisputed champ (after Vitali retires), have dozens of collective title defenses, and well over a decade unbeaten streak.

I don't care what era you fight in, that's some serious shit.

[bretchko]

Originally Posted by Cael

i know MVC is trying to bait a reaction from klitards

But seriously speaking now, Wladimir already has a more impressive and longer reign then Lewis.

The reason why Lewis still is widely regarded as a greater HW, is because of his wins over Fields and Tyson who were by that point significantly lesser fighters then in their prime.

Wladimir doesnt have those big names in his resume, and for some reason he also rubs ppl. the wrong way which reflects on the anti-klitschko sentiment that persists on this forums.

it really is a black and white thing on this forum..... sad but true

[The Clan]

Originally Posted by Cael

They already are above him.

What a stupid statement

[The Clan]

Originally Posted by Montero

By the time Wlad retires he'll have over 70 wins, add the WBC to his collection, be the longtime running lineal champ, undisputed champ (after Vitali retires), have dozens of collective title defenses, and well over a decade unbeaten streak.

I don't care what era you fight in, that's some serious shit.

But he'll never acquire enough skill to be ranked a better boxer than Lennox Lewis.

[Montero]

Originally Posted by The Clan

But he'll never acquire enough skill to be ranked a better boxer than Lennox Lewis.

Other than inside fighting, you could argue Wlad's skills are on par (or perhaps better) than Lennox's. Jab, straight right, left hook - footwork - Wlad's may just be slightly better when its all said and done. Wlad still seems to be learning and growing as a fighter.

They are very comparable in terms of skill (other than inside fighting).

[The Clan]

Originally Posted by Manning

Impossible to tell. Nobody would of knew that Lewis's win over Vitali would turn out to be by far his best ever win when the fight was made.

That would be because it wasn't/isn't!

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by Montero

Other than inside fighting, you could argue Wlad's skills are on par (or perhaps better) than Lennox's. Jab, straight right, left hook - footwork - Wlad's may just be slightly better when its all said and done. Wlad still seems to be learning and growing as a fighter.

They are very comparable in terms of skill (other than inside fighting).

You couldn't be more wrong. Wlad has a one dimensional attack consisting of pawing the jab, right hand , grab and repeat. That never changes. Lewis had a fast snappy jap he could pop repeatadly while moving laterally and on the back foot. He could string combos together to the head and body. He had a decent inside game, could fight out of the clinch and had a devastating uppercut.

[Manning]

Originally Posted by The Clan

That would be because it wasn't/isn't!

Do you think Lewis's best win then is over a faded 40 year old CW who did nothing of note after Lewis tapped that ass?

[Cael]

Originally Posted by Manning

Do you think Lewis's best win then is over a faded 40 year old CW who did nothing of note after Lewis tapped that ass?

yes..apparently on these forums the name of the fighter and the record behind him is more important then the fact that he was well past his best at the time the fight took place.

Maybe Wlad should fight Holyfield next so that he will have an equally as good record as Lewis.

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by Cael

yes..apparently on these forums the name of the fighter and the record behind him is more important then the fact that he was well past his best at the time the fight took place.

Maybe Wlad should fight Holyfield next so that he will have an equally as good record as Lewis.

He fought old Mercer, Thompson and Mormek which is a 100 times worse.