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Old 01-26-2013, 02:14 AM   #46
MagnaNasakki
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
i'm not an expert on breaking down styles but i'll give it a shot...

lyle has a much better jab and is relatively durable (RELATIVELY). haye is far quick, both of hand and foot, and throws superior combinations.

hayes comes out with a commanding first round, knocking down lyle and asserting himself. lyle takes over by the third with his jab and even scores a flash knockdown as haye comes in. haye paces himself and takes some rounds off, moving away from lyle.

lyle has a lead by the 6th but haye is coming back on, ambushing lyle and scoring heavy heavy blows. as he gasses going for the kill in the 9th, lyle clinches wisely and gets more and more physical. turning the fight into an inside brawl, haye is outgunned strength wise and lyle uses his superior physicality to rough him up on the inside.

haye finally establishes some distance and tries to win from the outside. lyle is with him jab for jab though and keeps it competitive into the championship rounds as haye slows down a touch.

Lyle SD in a match that demands a return

I agree with this analysis.

Haye is plenty skilled, and Lyle, a bit overrated. It's a good, even match up. The gifted pedigreed fighter against the competent, rugged contender.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:11 PM   #47
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

Lyle wins.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:36 PM   #48
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

Haye by knockout. Mark it.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:52 PM   #49
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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Originally Posted by hookfromhell View Post
Lets see Lyle held his own against the best fighters of the 70s,
including Ali, Foreman,Young, and Shavers. Granted he lost most, but
Lyle showed he had heart and could get off the canvas to win.
As for strength he almost outslugged Foreman, I rate Lyle's punching
power very high. He had ggod boxing skills, but could be outclassed
technically ala Quarry and Young.
Haye in my opinion is a joke with no class or heart. His performance
against Wlad was dissapointing and damn near disgraceful with all
of his flopping and flailing around the ring. However, from what I remember
he hurt Wlad in the 12th round. Haye has speed, elusiveness, and decent
power.Bottom line, Haye is a blown up cruiser whose chin wouldnt stand up to the
power of Lyle. Lyle KO 7. Haye is gunshy but steals some rounds with his speed.
Ron catches Haye with a right hand at the end of round 7 and Haye and his
ten little piggies go home crying.
Lyle never beat a fighter in Haye's class. He lost against all the good ones. Slugging it out and losing against the most crude top 10 heavy in existence and losing to Ali don't make a great career. Say what you want about Haye, but his only loses were the result of one random chin failure and fighting a great superheavy in his prime. He's beaten some okay guys.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:13 PM   #50
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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Originally Posted by NoNeck View Post
Lyle never beat a fighter in Haye's class. He lost against all the good ones. Slugging it out and losing against the most crude top 10 heavy in existence and losing to Ali don't make a great career. Say what you want about Haye, but his only loses were the result of one random chin failure and fighting a great superheavy in his prime. He's beaten some okay guys.
The chin failure was more of a conditioning failure than a chin failure though.
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:28 PM   #51
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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The chin failure was more of a conditioning failure than a chin failure though.
true
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:34 PM   #52
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I agree with this analysis.

Haye is plenty skilled, and Lyle, a bit overrated. It's a good, even match up. The gifted pedigreed fighter against the competent, rugged contender.
appreciate it magna respect your opinion immensely
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:15 PM   #53
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

Lyle was imposing but was not a top notch puncher, still he could hit....it depends on what type of fight David fights, Haye has some good skills and can hit IMO harder than Lyle but will David be intimidated and will Lyle put the pressure on him...Lyle was a better fighter than Chisora and hit harder than Derrick but Haye has speed and power

A lot depends on how Haye handles Lyle's pressure ...I think its a stop but not sure who
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:30 PM   #54
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

David Haye is a very talented fighter...but the Lyle that fought Foreman really put it all on the line...He went to a place mentally to win a fight, that Haye has never ventured into.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:36 PM   #55
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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Originally Posted by Synthetic Decay View Post
Haye has failed consistently at the top level? He got outboxed by Wlad in a fight where they were both guilty of being very over cautious. Does that mean that Wlad can't beat anyone in h2h match ups too?

Someone might need to define what they think consistently means.
Haye was extremely negative in his two bouts against top 5 heavyweights. For me the cruiserweights he beat (Mormeck, Enzo, Fragomeni) were average small heavyweights. So Haye had Valuev, and was utterly dominated in his one fight against the best in his division.

IMO Haye wouldn't do very much against a lot of Lyle's opponents. Lyle would likely smash the versions of Haye's best opponents that Haye actually beat.

All I was saying was, Haye Might have a load of trinkets to his name but numbers aside there's nothing to suggest he has the superior record.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:39 PM   #56
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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Originally Posted by NoNeck View Post
Lyle never beat a fighter in Haye's class. He lost against all the good ones. Slugging it out and losing against the most crude top 10 heavy in existence and losing to Ali don't make a great career. Say what you want about Haye, but his only loses were the result of one random chin failure and fighting a great superheavy in his prime. He's beaten some okay guys.
'Random chin failure'? He was made to look like Amir Khan by Lolenga Mock. He isn't particularly durable, though he made up for that against bigger guys he couldn't walk through by....by....by running away constantly.

'Haye's class'? What is that then?
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:12 PM   #57
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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Originally Posted by AlFrancis View Post
Bit of a difference between George Foreman and Derek Chisora.
Foreman was coming off over a year layoff (the Toronto exhibition in April 1975 against 5 journeymen opponents notwithstanding). Foreman was generally a sloppy fighter in the 1970's. He left openings and Lyle, to his credit, stayed in the pocket and exploited them.

Haye has something that WOULD trouble Lyle. That being excellent handspeed. Was not Quarry kind of slow and shuffling on his feet? Yes, but he had quick hands and decent power. Haye has VERY fast hands (faster than Quarry) and decidedly more power. Okay, he doesn't have intangibles like toughness and fearlessness that Quarry possessed. Haye also has dynamite in those fists.

Lyle KO by 2 Lynn Ball
Lyle KO by 1 Gerry Cooney
L12 twice to Jimmy Young

all these men had handspeed.

Haye KO 5 Lyle
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:13 PM   #58
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

Also, Lyle L 12 Quarry
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:07 PM   #59
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

Both men would give a good account of themselves in a fight that may be made dull by Haye spending the majority of the fight moving away from lyle on his toes. Both men would have their chins tested and I think Haye would be able to take a fair bit of punishment, whilst having the savvy to create space when hurt. Lyle for me would get the stoppage, but may be down on the cards at the time in a very close fight.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:01 PM   #60
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Default Re: David Haye of today vs Ron Lyle (of the Foreman fight)

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Originally Posted by Sardu View Post
Foreman was coming off over a year layoff (the Toronto exhibition in April 1975 against 5 journeymen opponents notwithstanding). Foreman was generally a sloppy fighter in the 1970's. He left openings and Lyle, to his credit, stayed in the pocket and exploited them.

Haye has something that WOULD trouble Lyle. That being excellent handspeed. Was not Quarry kind of slow and shuffling on his feet? Yes, but he had quick hands and decent power. Haye has VERY fast hands (faster than Quarry) and decidedly more power. Okay, he doesn't have intangibles like toughness and fearlessness that Quarry possessed. Haye also has dynamite in those fists.

Lyle KO by 2 Lynn Ball
Lyle KO by 1 Gerry Cooney
L12 twice to Jimmy Young

all these men had handspeed.

Haye KO 5 Lyle
How can you use the Lynn Ball and Gerry Cooney fights as examples when we're talking about the Ron Lyle of the Foreman fight? I don't think he was the same fighter 3 years/4 . I'd say that if David Haye was gonna fight him it would be at that time when he was in his later years.
No shame in getting beat by Jerry Quarry.
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