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Old 01-26-2013, 02:08 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

I don't really consider anything at 175 after moving up to HW Roy's "era" he was clearly at the very tail end of his prime when moving up to HW. At that point, Glen Johnson was 1-2-1 at LHW, losing twice to previous Jones victims. The division clearly got weaker as Jones Jr and DM got old.

It is arguable too that Johnson hit a late peak, and was a better fighter at LHW than he was at SMW.. I don't really consider it all that relevant.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
You really are a clown of the very hightest level, it must be said.
A typical dinovelvet post, makes a childish insult whilst ducking all the relevant points

Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey View Post
Fantastic post and a very clear vision of the future rankings.
I dont think Groves will go up to LHW, but will be running SMW, while as you note, Cleverly and Bellew the leading LHW champs, who unlike Jones and Michalczewski, did meet and will do it again with their belts on the line, just like how Eubank and Benn met again
It is a pleasure to receive high praise from such a distinguished poster. Yes, Cleverly and Bellew have both proven they're willing to take on the best. When these two are both champions, I doubt we'll see a situation where Jones was demanding $12m to go anywhere near Darius, and Darius himself made little effort to get to Roy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post
Thats a well educated post and i find myself agreeing with much of it, the Cleverly victory over Bellew was an excellent one that will grow with time, much like the Groves victory over Degale that will appear an outstanding victory in 3 years time - How refreshing to see 4 highly respected prospects prepared to put their unbeaten records on the line at this stage up their career in such mouth-watering match-ups.

I don't think its beyond the realms of possiblity that in 4 years time the 175 rankings are

1 Cleverly
2 Degale
3 Groves
4 Bellew
5 Froch
6 Eubank Jnr
7 Kovalev
8 Pascal
9 Ward
10 Dawson

Fantastic prediction, I didn't even think of Eubank jr and Degale moving up. That would make the LHW division as strong as it's ever been, it almost sounds too good to be true, imagine the great fights there.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:22 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Fantastic prediction, I didn't even think of Eubank jr and Degale moving up. That would make the LHW division as strong as it's ever been, it almost sounds too good to be true, imagine the great fights there.

Yes, its a mouth-watering scenario, where the cream rises to the top and the best fight the best
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

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Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post
In some ways you're self-defeating yourself in this discussion because you are using the weak fighters that i already mentioned in the 175 era as though to prove that these fighters had strong resumes in this division.
I never said these fighters had strong resumes at LHW, what I did say was their resumes at LHW were alot more impressive than Calzaghe, who I see as one of the weakest LHW champions in modern history.

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Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post
Calzaghe's victory over Hopkins is perhaps the most significant victory the 175 division has seen for 20 years and neither of those 2 campaigned in the division until the latter stages of their careers, hence what a weak 175 era the Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods- Dawson era was.
Calzaghe SD12 Hopkins, was a shit win over a good fighter, which makes it a decent win.

Hopkins UD12 Tarver, was a great win over a decent fighter, which makes it a solid win and for more greater than Calzaghe SD12 Hopkins.

When I compare wins, I dont go on boxrec and look at the opponents, I watch the fights and also compare the manner of the victory.

It has been proven by substantial evidence, intelligence and wisdom that Joe Calzaghe has been one of the worst champions in the modern history of the LHW division.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

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Originally Posted by welsh_dragon83 View Post
Tarver fought RJJ, Woods, Johnson, Hopkins, Dawson, Griffin (And called out Calzaghe)
Johnson fought RJJ, Woods, Cloud, Dawson, Griffin, Gonzales (And called out Calzaghe)
Woods fought RJJ, Tarver, Johnson, Cloud, Gonzales (And called out Calzaghe)
Dawson fought Tarver, Johnson, Pascal, Hopkins, Diaconu, Adamek (And called out Calzaghe)

Calzaghe fought Hopkins and RJJ then ran away from the sport.

super joe would have schooled this lot easy
Would, could, should........ but never made the effort to do so

It has been established, Joe Calzaghe is probably the weakest LHW champion of the last 20 years with only the Ring Paper belt as his only silverware.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:57 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post
Thats a well educated post and i find myself agreeing with much of it, the Cleverly victory over Bellew was an excellent one that will grow with time, much like the Groves victory over Degale that will appear an outstanding victory in 3 years time - How refreshing to see 4 highly respected prospects prepared to put their unbeaten records on the line at this stage up their career in such mouth-watering match-ups.

I don't think its beyond the realms of possiblity that in 4 years time the 175 rankings are

1 Cleverly
2 Degale
3 Groves
4 Bellew
5 Froch
6 Eubank Jnr
7 Kovalev
8 Pascal
9 Ward
10 Dawson
Il give you Clev but thats a pure hate post in disguise. Degale 2 and Ward 9?
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Old 01-27-2013, 06:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post
What makes you say that Louden?

Glen Johnson is the perfect barometer and he was used as a punch bag in the tough 168 era, whilst it could be claimed that he was the main man in the entire Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era.
Good point, but Glen became a better fighter at 175, not just because the division wasn't as strong. Woods was also better at 175.

Just do a quick comparison. In my opinion, the division became strong again in around 2006/2007. But during the years I've mentioned, the 175 division was he strongest, and that's where Joe should have been fighting. Reggie Johnson, Roy, DM, Hill, Griffin, Tarver, Harding, Woods, Gonzalez and Hop in 2006.

Joe should have been in that mix. He should have moved up in 1999-2000 he could have been in some great fights. When he couldn't unify with Ottke, he should have gone. The weight wasn't an issue in anyway, and Joe was confident that he'd be too quick for those guys. He said in 2004, that he knew he had to go up, yet it took him another four years to get there.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post

One of the reasons i say this is because when the smoke had cleared, Tarver was sat as king of the era . . . . . . . yet looked what happened next :



- A 42 year old Hopkins made a 2 weight jump from 160 and dominated Tarver to become the main man at 175 in his first fight back at the weight

- Next a 36 year old Calzaghe moved up from 168 and in his 1st fight at the weight became the new king of the division

- Then when it looked like Dawson would be king of the 175 division, 168lb 'also ran' Jean Pascal moved up weight and owned Dawson to be the new king



What also adds weight to the sheer weakness of that 175 era was that after Glen Johnsons 1st loss to Hopkins at 160, Johnson then moved up to the tough 168 division and was passed around like a journey man, amassing 4 wins and 6 defeats at the weight before running away to the weak 175 era where Johnson handed out defeats to Tarver, Jones, and Woods and was considered unlucky versus Dawson.
LHW has long been used as a haven for supposed "has beens" from other weight classes looking to regain titles and revive their careers.

In addition to the examples you listed, ex-MW titleholder Reggie Johnson basically came out of semi-retirement in his early 30s, jumped straight up two weight classes, and flattened LHW titleholder Willie Guthrie.

After Fabrice Tiozzo was dethroned as CW champ, he slimmed down to LHW while in his mid 30s and regained a title by beating Silvio Branco.

Speaking of Branco, he had been an aging SMW contender who revived his career simply by moving to LHW.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:11 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

Joe Calzaghe thought of LHW as anything but weak when thinking for years of moving up. Why his delusional fans try to make up lies is beyond me.

Perhaps Calzaghe fans should have trained him, obviously they know something he didn't.

LHW was not weak with Roy and DM there in their primes, in fact, it was one of the toughest.

In order to get a respected belt, you either had to beat Michalcsewski or Jones Jr, how that is a weak weight? I am not sure.

Last edited by Mind Reader; 01-27-2013 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:56 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Reader View Post

In order to get a respected belt, you either had to beat Michalcsewski or Jones Jr, how that is a weak weight? I am not sure.
I would argue that a division with only two such distinguished fighters is the definition of a weak division - especially if one of those fighters generally isn't even considered a true great.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:22 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

Dawson and Johnson weren't really in the Jones Jr era of light heavy. Jones was the man from 98 until he moved to heavyweight. No one could touch him.

Calzaghe, Tarver, Johnson just got the scraps of what "used to be".
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

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I would argue that a division with only two such distinguished fighters is the definition of a weak division - especially if one of those fighters generally isn't even considered a true great.
Not when you consider one was the fighter of the decade of the 90's and recognized as the P4P best in the world, and one was undefeated for a long time and will most likely go down in the HOF...

To get a recognized belt in that weight, you either had to beat Roy or DM.. That is hardly weak. Plus you had guys like Woods, Johnson, Tarver, Griffin, Harding ect that were all very good at their best. I think that weight gets underrated from 98-03..
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:23 AM   #28
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mind Reader View Post
Not when you consider one was the fighter of the decade of the 90's and recognized as the P4P best in the world, and one was undefeated for a long time and will most likely go down in the HOF...

To get a recognized belt in that weight, you either had to beat Roy or DM.. That is hardly weak. Plus you had guys like Woods, Johnson, Tarver, Griffin, Harding ect that were all very good at their best. I think that weight gets underrated from 98-03..
TBH mate, thats just the blinkered fanboy in you trying to enhance an extremely poor 175 era in order to elevate your idol.

Jones can only be judged as a clean fighter following him being busted for steroids. what does his clean 175 reign consist of - 4 victories over very ordinary fighters in Harding, Woods, Gonzalez, and Tarver and 4 convincing defeats in Tarver twice, Johnson, and Calzaghe.

Tarver another drugs cheats who should be held in suspicion for all his fights. wins against Jones twice, a win over 168 punchbag Johnson and a win over woods, - defeats to Johnson, beatdown off Hopkins, 2 defeats to hypejob Dawson and defeat to Harding.

Johnson 168 journeyman and punchbag with a record of 5 wins and 8 defeats in the tough super-middleweight division.
At 175 wins over Jones, Tarver, Woods and defeats to hypejob Dawson twice, Tarver, and plodder Woods.

Woods - the definition of average, one of the most limited british fighters ever to become a world champion, could only have been possible in this terribly weak 175 era.

Dawson - ultimate american hypejob, cherry picked on shot old men in Tarver, Johnson, and Hopkins and whenever he faced a fighter of reasonable standard from the much tougher 168 division, was made to look like shit from the likes of Pascal and Ward.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:35 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
One things for certain. From 97-2006, it was a lot stronger than the 168 division that Joe stayed in!


Oh that much is certain !
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:29 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Jones-Tarver-Johnson-Woods-Dawson 175 era . . . . . . .

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Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
Dawson and Johnson weren't really in the Jones Jr era of light heavy. Jones was the man from 98 until he moved to heavyweight. No one could touch him.

Calzaghe, Tarver, Johnson just got the scraps of what "used to be".
Nonsense, calzaghe, johnson, tarver, dawson were all very much part of the 'clean' roy jones era.
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