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Old 02-07-2013, 01:55 PM   #121
angry cuban
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
So KC, any chance you could ask your friend in Santa Isabel de las Lajas about whether more Aragón video might be floating around?

Also, I'm curious to know if he ever spoke about the possibility of turning pro or his reasons for not doing so. (probably nationalistic loyalty, as with others who chose the same abstinence)

...and did he ever speak on the Mayweather bout? Did he feel he got a fair shake? Was he complimentary of Mayweather? Did he comment on Todorov getting the nod over a man he fought tougher against?
In Cuba boxers and high level athletes in general are supervised all the time.if they talk about to became pro they will never box again..I know you can't picture this in your mind but it's like that...also Cuban boxers go thru a long process which takr many years and they are chosen like at the age of 7-8 they exercise a lot and train all day and night..they don't stud y so..don't look for smart answer of something specific...man..I will like you to watch a documental in you tube about cuban school of boxing and how everything work in there..it hava English subtitles..is call Cuban Punch Up the boys who found for Castro..please watch it and tell me what are you throughs on that..I m very interested in your opinion...this kids have no live..they only train..Rigo, Gamboa, Lara everyone of them fo thru the same.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:43 PM   #122
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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In Cuba boxers and high level athletes in general are supervised all the time.if they talk about to became pro they will never box again..I know you can't picture this in your mind but it's like that...also Cuban boxers go thru a long process which takr many years and they are chosen like at the age of 7-8 they exercise a lot and train all day and night..they don't stud y so..don't look for smart answer of something specific...man..I will like you to watch a documental in you tube about cuban school of boxing and how everything work in there..it hava English subtitles..is call Cuban Punch Up the boys who found for Castro..please watch it and tell me what are you throughs on that..I m very interested in your opinion...this kids have no live..they only train..Rigo, Gamboa, Lara everyone of them fo thru the same.
No, I'll look for that...
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:57 AM   #123
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

Another coup counted by Aragón:

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Vilmos Balog represented Hungary at the 2004 Olympics, qualifying by defeating Viktor Poliakov, a very good Ukrainian boxer who has since turned pro and gone 11-0 (6) with a couple of decent wins. Balog himself debuted in '05 and has since racked up a 30-0 (16) record, although it's fairly padded other than one fellow unbeaten prospect against whom he acquired a vacant bauble.

Balog got completely wiped out by Aragón in 2003.
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:08 PM   #124
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragon, July 31st 1996

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Interesting to note: Aragon took the 1st and 3rd in the view of both the judges and yours truly. So going by rounds instead of total hit-count he bested Mayweather 2:1.

Taking it a step further, if we apply the professional style scoring system it could well be a 30-26 shutout for Aragon! (since Mayweather landed more in the 2nd but did get dropped, making it automatically 10-8 for Aragon)

Clearly this Lorenzo Aragon was one of his generation's most excellent products of the Cuban amateur program. A forgotten stud.

Also impressive is the way he out-muscled Mayweather in the clinches. Mayweather was just a kid, but he was a strapping, athletic, hungry kid.
real scoring does not make a round 10/8 automatically. not supposed to be some dumbasss judges do give 10/8 an it doesnt matter who won the round itself without the kd. way too many flaws in scoring for boxing.

i'm probably in the minority but i think we are missing out on great fights and especially great 2nd half of fights ignoring open scoring. i think open scoring will make for greater fights and much great fight ending.

if i know i am down after 8 i can legitimately try for the ko win instead of accepting a points defeat. if you know you need to win out the remaiming rounds i want a heads, especially if you and everyone else thinks you're winning
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:10 PM   #125
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragon, July 31st 1996

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real scoring does not make a round 10/8 automatically. not supposed to be some dumbasss judges do give 10/8 an it doesnt matter who won the round itself without the kd. way too many flaws in scoring for boxing.

i'm probably in the minority but i think we are missing out on great fights and especially great 2nd half of fights ignoring open scoring. i think open scoring will make for greater fights and much great fight ending.

if i know i am down after 8 i can legitimately try for the ko win instead of accepting a points defeat. if you know you need to win out the remaiming rounds i want a heads, especially if you and everyone else thinks you're winning
Look at Alvarez vs. Trout.

They found out Alvarez had it almost wrapped up after 8 rounds.

Alvarez chilled. Trout didn't have it in his toolbox to do anything else, so he kinda chilled too...

I don't like open scoring. In theory it can be alright but my guess is in practice it would lead to more boredom than anything.
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Old 04-03-2015, 10:23 PM   #126
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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Great fight, if a bit of a waltz in spots. Featherweight quarterfinal (meaning a minimum of a bronze medal at stake) at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics.

BORKED
BORKED


Significant as it's the last time Mayweather ever tasted victory with the headgear, and the last before his current unbeaten streak of 43-0 began. He would go on to lose a highly controversial decision to Serafim Todorov in the semis, robbed of a rightful Silver medal at the very least and probably a near-certain chance for gold against Somluck Kamsing. Mayweather made his prizefighting debut two months after the Olympics.

Also significant because Aragon is the last person to legitimately knock Mayweather down with a punch (see about 0:56 of R2...Aragon caught Mayweather rushing wildly with a chopping right from the ropes) - unless you count Zab Judah's non-ruled flash drop with a quick right hook resulting in a glove brushing the canvas, or Castillo wrestling him down in the 6th where a grazing body shot may or may not have contributed in tipping him off balance. The 1 official KD on Mayweather's pro resume, against Carlos Hernandez, was the result of injuring his own wrist in the act of throwing and taking a voluntary knee because of the pain. Aragon is the last man to actually crunch him with something flush and upend him. Of course, under amateur rules there is no extra point for a knockdown so it didn't significantly affect the scoring.

Unlike Todorov, Aragon was actually on Mayweather's level. He came within a mere few touches of denying PBF a spot on the podium altogether, in a legitimately close contest - far more so than Mayweather's subsequent dubious loss. Aragon probably could've beaten Todorov or Kamsing himself and it may have been only the dumb luck of Mayweather's presence that kept him from bringing the gold to Cuba. Yeah, yeah - styles make fights...but here's another cliche as riposte: it's about levels.

For perspective, Aragon beat the following boxers who achieved notability as pros: world titlists Joel Casamayor, Robbie Peden (wide), Andre Berto (wide), Vyacheslav Senchenko (wide), and Lukas Konecny (close); onetime ranked contenders Terrance Cauthen, Carlos Navarro, & Euri Gonzalez x2 (once a shutout, and once extremely wide by twenty points); current ranked contenders Yudel Jhonson x4 & Erislandy Lara x4 (all wide); and current unbeaten prospect/contenders Vanes Martirosyan x2 (once wide, once by stoppage) & middleweight Sherzod Husanov x3 (twice wide, once by stoppage).

Total amatuer record of 109-15; 6-2 in the Olympics over two appearances. Silver medalist in Athens '04, twice a gold medalist in world championships, and ten-time Cuban national champ from flyweight all the way to welterweight. He also defeated legendary countryman and 2-time Olympic gold medalist Mario Kindelán, and decorated Russian hero & Val Barker trophy conferee Oleg Saitov.

It's arguable the professional combatants who've troubled Floyd as much as did Aragon when he was a teenager are numerable on one hand.

Damn shame we never saw the Cuban defect and go pro (way too late now; he's pushing forty and hasn't competed in years), although waiting around until age 30 did afford him the opportunity for redemption with that Silver medal in Athens.


IB's RBR scoring (under the now-outmoded amateur system, counting only clean legal blows):

R1 - M A A A M M A M A M A A M M A; 8-7 Aragon. Officially 5-4 Aragon.

R2 - M M A M M A A M M A M M A M M A M M A M M; 14-7 Mayweather. (21-15 overall) Officially 6-2 Mayweather. (10-7 overall)

R3 - M A M A M M A A A M A A ; 7-5 Aragon. (26-22 Mayweather overall). Officially 4-2 Aragon. (12-11 Mayweather overall)

...and yes, I actually score counter jabs on the back foot...if they're clean on target and snapped rather than pushed. Body shots, too.
Floyd clearly beat Aragon. The scoring was terrible in that fight.
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Old 04-04-2015, 12:08 AM   #127
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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Floyd clearly beat Aragon. The scoring was terrible in that fight.
I bothered to watch & score it myself and post my tallies. Noticed you didn't.
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Old 04-04-2015, 01:05 AM   #128
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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I bothered to watch & score it myself and post my tallies. Noticed you didn't.
I wasn't talking about your scoring of this fight.
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Old 04-06-2015, 12:39 PM   #129
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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I wasn't talking about your scoring of this fight.
...but I did have it the same, more or less, as the official result: close but clear for Mayweather. (under the existing rule set)

The only difference between mine and the official scoring is they only counted about half the punches I did - but they were even-handed about it, not unduly biased either way.
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Old 04-06-2015, 03:15 PM   #130
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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I would <33333333333333333 to see footage of Aragón defeating:

Husanov by stoppage in their first encounter
Kindelan
Saitov
Casamayor
Berto
Peden
Senchenko
Konecny
Martirosyan...twice! (once by stoppage!!!)
Lara...four times!

...or any of his other knockouts. I'm also keen to see his losses to Paul Lloyd (excellent amateur and underrated name on Marco Antonio Barrera's resume given the way he was taken out) and Kazakh monster Bakhtiyar Artayev, a Gold medalist and Val Barker trophy recipient who also vanquished Russian legend & previous Val Barker recipient Oleg Saitov before ending the 15-year campaign of Aragón.

This stuff needs to be up for posterity. Hopefully someone out there's got a few old tapes and a YouTube account, and does a public service.
I've seen the Artayev fight on youtube somewhere but i think you need to type his name in Russian to get results.

Closer fight than the score indicated imo but Artayev did seem to edge it for me.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:45 PM   #131
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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I've seen the Artayev fight on youtube somewhere but i think you need to type his name in Russian to get results.

Closer fight than the score indicated imo but Artayev did seem to edge it for me.
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Old 04-06-2015, 08:52 PM   #132
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

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Voila!
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Old 05-03-2015, 10:10 PM   #133
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Default Re: Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Lorenzo Aragón, July 31st 1996

Still the closest anyone has run Floyd in nineteen years.

Aragón's case >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DLH's, Maidana's, Cotto's, Pacquiao's or Castillo's. (or Todorov's)
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