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Old 01-30-2013, 11:01 AM   #61
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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Originally Posted by Big Left View Post
what? you mean like RJJ or Holyfield who are always mentioned as top 50 ATGs.
I know what you mean, I personally find it sickenning the way fanboys on here continue to support their PED cheating idols and pretend that the disgracefull juicing has nothing to do with furthering the achievements of said fighter.

I could never ever support a PED cheating fighter, I have morals.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:02 AM   #62
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Spain says
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:06 AM   #63
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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Wach has been living and training out of the US for a couple years now.

With that being said i am convinced MOST top athletes are on PED's these days. Mosley,Bonds,McGuire Armstrong..etc never actaully failed a test. It started through the rumour mill and turned out to be true in the above cases. Just because they are not being caught does not mean they arent on it. The people who create PED's are always one or two steps ahead of the people who test for them.
Excellent contribution, it kinda makes sense with Wach now.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:12 AM   #64
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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Yeah, I see somebody else is reading this bullshit right. Dude always hatin on americans.

Preposterous statement, spitting bile and venom all over the thread with your twisted accusations
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:15 AM   #65
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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Any more info on the rumours relating to Joe, Smith? Thats fascinating.

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:19 AM   #66
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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****ing hilarious how you leave all the other countries fighter's off just to further your pathetic agenda. Wach of Poland just tested positive for roids but you left him out because it didn't suit your agenda.
Wach started his roid program once he relocated to America. Wach was merely a tall feather fisted low level boxer prior to that.
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:24 AM   #67
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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Can't say for sure, but we do know Enzo Mac is a known abuser and he was in the same stable as Joe Calzaghe (a guy who loves to snort coke) so I personally wouldn't put it past Calzaghe to have been juicing during his famous wins over the Mkretchyen and Pudwill but that's not to say it's a UK based problem.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:38 PM   #68
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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No I'm not, there is no good scientific evidence for the efficacy of most PED's. That doesn't mean that they're not effective but the science we have doesn't show that. Research it yourself. The other things you're saying I agree with. You'll notice that all these names who have made money selling banned drugs to athletes lack any real qualifications. My belief is that the placebo effect is the big advantage in play when athletes take PED's, the naughtier it is the more they believe it will give them an advantage. You have athletes that swear by power bands as well, the placebo effect can be very strong and athletes tend to be very susceptible to it.
Okay, I've researched it and lived it. Without a shadow of a doubt PEDs aid in enhancing your physical state. And in sport, where yes you require the skill set to begin with, enhancing your physcial tools, which that skill set is based on, undeniably gives you an advantage. There are many papers out there concluding PEDs aid in performance, hence the name performance enhancing drugs. Saying it is placebo is not valid if an athlete is using real steroids or endurance boosters like epo. Confidence may increase, but that is a result from observing the physical changes. Placebo is a strong motivator, but if you've experienced these susbstances, then it's easy to see placebo alone cannot push you past your pre-disposed genetic potential, while PEDs can help.

The true limiting factor as to how much they help is in the athlete himself. Individuals have different base skill levels, different potentials/plateaus, and different levels of response and/or susceptibilities. So it is impossible to quantify how much they help from person to person. But without any doubt, they help.

If you are able to train longer, rest less, recover faster, become stronger, cut weight easier (beta 2's and diuretics), have more endurance (epo) etc etc etc.....then you are aiding your athletic endeavors, and aiding your performance no matter what the results are in competetition....that boils down to the individual, and their talent level, which can receive a little bump from using PEDs.

And there is lots of literature supporting and concluding they help improve your physicality. The one's with any conflicting results, are generally done with untrained individuals....yet one's conducted in athletes show a much higher and consistent benefit. The debate over how much they help is almost solely based on factors outside of strict physical improvements.

The question truly is how much they help, due to intangibles and individuality.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:07 PM   #69
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post
My question to you is

- Do you believe that this PED use has mainly been an American based problem in boxing? If not, why not?
American problem? Ask this queer:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:09 PM   #70
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post
I know what you mean, I personally find it sickenning the way fanboys on here continue to support their PED cheating idols and pretend that the disgracefull juicing has nothing to do with furthering the achievements of said fighter.

I could never ever support a PED cheating fighter, I have morals.
Couldn't agree more. I do not rank RJJ, Holyfield, or manny anywhere in my Top 50 ATG. Primarily because their success relied on physical attributes. So without the PED's their success would've been diminished.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:15 PM   #71
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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We Americans hold our athletes to a higher standard. We'll stand behind them but if they're ever found to be a cheat, they get discarded like trash like Lance, Barry Bonds ... In America, catching someone cheating is big news and it gets reported. In other countries, catching someone and reporting it may likely be the death of you. Do you think anyone will report Pacquiao cheating in Southern Philippines? Journalists get killed just for reporting unbiased news there. Anybody with a brain has to know there's equal if not higher chance of using it to make more $ in impoverished countries.
I may not live in the US, but I sure as hell don't live in a 3rd world country. A hell of a lot of boxers come from countries with great anti-doping program like Britain, Canada, Germany, Australia, etc... I don't know if I'm right, but I even believe that the headquarters of the world anti-doping agency is where I live, in Montreal... and believe me, journalists are doing a great job discovering dirty stories around here.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #72
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

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Originally Posted by dendy View Post
Before the mack fight froch went on record stating that the testers turned up at his house unannounced at 7am in the morning to carry out a random blood test. Not saying this is common but it looks to be that random testing is in place over here.

Seeing as we are talking boxing, are you under the impression that there is more testing in America? To my knowledge the only random blood testing done is when fighters request that USADA run the tests prior to a fight?
I was making more of a general statement. Testing will generate positive test results. The more tests, the more positives.

The fact of the matter is that most boxers implicated in America got caught up in firms linked to baseball players. Sadly, the boxing commissions and state athletic commissions didn't catch many of them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:23 PM   #73
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

PED side boxing.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:10 PM   #74
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Every fighter you name made a fat American named check$$$$$$$
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:14 PM   #75
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Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

no sh*t we have the best PED labs outside of Europe
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