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Old 02-04-2013, 10:12 AM   #16
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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Originally Posted by dyna View Post
But had Duran - Hagler also been 12 rounds, Duran would have won against Hagler too. (He was still a little ahead in the 12th round)
Yes because in a 12 round fight Hagler would have fought the exact same way
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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I would have to say Duran by a wide margin.

Hagler was much younger and less shopworn, and Duran fought him. That means more to me than the running technical boxing leonard did with Hagler.

Duran proved he could bang with a top 3 MW of all time. Leonard should not have won the Hagler fight. Hagler did enough to hold on to the title either via draw or close decision.

Duran was fighting a better Hagler at the same age Leonard fought with with him, and gave him hell. Leonard gave him a track meet.

The fact that it was only 12 rouunds helped Leonard immensleyl.


To me the Duran loss to Hagler was a greater performence than the Leonard win. It adds to Durans legacy. I just have a hard time giving credit to Leonards win as I think he lost that fight and Hagler had slid so much.
I love how these kind of analysises always conveniently forgets one thing: LEONARD HAD FOUGHT ONLY ONCE IN 5 YEARS, AND NEVER AT MW, BEFORE FACING HAGLER

Show me one other example in the history of boxing where a fighter have been out that long before coming back and beating a dominant ATG champion in a higher weight class than he's ever been in before?
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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I love how these kind of analysises always conveniently forgets one thing: LEONARD HAD FOUGHT ONLY ONCE IN 5 YEARS, AND NEVER AT MW, BEFORE FACING HAGLER

Show me one other example in the history of boxing where a fighter have been out that long before coming back and beating a dominant ATG champion in a higher weight class than he's ever been in before?
Leonard fought a lot in his training camps.
It's not like he didn't spar.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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Leonard fought a lot in his training camps.
No, only before the actual fight.

During his lay-off he worked out a couple of times a week, but also drank heavily and did coke. Hardly the life-style of a dedicated pro.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:20 AM   #20
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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No, only before the actual fight.

During his lay-off he worked out a couple of times a week, but also drank heavily and did coke. Hardly the life-style of a dedicated pro.
Duran was outeating Butterbean and having extreme weight fluctuations.
It's not like everybody had the life-style of a pro, though Hagler had one.

He didn't win... but he was also a smaller guy than Leonard.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:25 AM   #21
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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Duran was outeating Butterbean and having extreme weight fluctuations.
It's not like everybody had the life-style of a pro, though Hagler had one.

He didn't win... but he was also a smaller guy than Leonard.
Duran's performance was impressive, but no one denies that. And no one is saying anything else than that Duran was way past his prime and competing in a much higher weight class than his natural one.

But plenty conveniently forget that Leonard was away for a long time - and that his life-style during these years hardly helped either. You seem to be one of them.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:35 AM   #22
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

Leonard fought him better, but Duran gave him a more physically taxing fight.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

Btw, y'all...Sparring ain't shit. Saying his layoff doesn't count cause he sparred is literally asinine.

If you think you can not fight for five years, just spar, and come back sharp...Well, try it. Try a couple years, even, like me.

I'll wait. Good luck.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

Why are people forgetting that Duran fought a much better Hagler.. was older than SRL himself... actually went championship distance.. and was further past his best weight. I had Hagler beating SRL, and since he also beat Duran, the above stats means Duran did better to me.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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Why are people forgetting that Duran fought a much better Hagler.. was older than SRL himself... actually went championship distance.. and was further past his best weight. I had Hagler beating SRL, and since he also beat Duran, the above stats means Duran did better to me.
No one disagrees with the first part of your post, but most disagree with the second.

And there's also the little case of Leonard's inactivity. Those making a case for Duran here don't seem to think that spending years doing drugs and alcohol instead of fighting matter. The rest do.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #26
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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I just wanted to point that Duran did extremely well considering his lightweight tools
I see your point, but the bottomline is Roberto did not win. Hagler fought such a slow technical fight that night. Now a fight which I think is impressive but gets less credit is Hearns vs. Virgil HIll. Hill was undefeated and had 11 or so title defeneses and Hearnsbeat Virgil Hill by Unanimous decision at lightheavyweight and he was a former welterweight. All the other guys Virgil's weight class couldn't come close, and a former welterweight outboxes him relatively easy.
I think beating a champion is what would make the accomplishment real. Duran gets credit for losses where other guys are discounted. His accomplishments are made times 2 or even times 3 what they were, and his losses are discounted as Roberto being out of shape, which he always was when he fought a great fighter, which coincided with him losing. As for Hagler, Roldan knocked down Hagler and Hearns rocked him badly. Leonard beat him, and he was the only one to do that with Hagler.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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Originally Posted by KuRuPT View Post
Why are people forgetting that Duran fought a much better Hagler.. was older than SRL himself... actually went championship distance.. and was further past his best weight. I had Hagler beating SRL, and since he also beat Duran, the above stats means Duran did better to me.
I don't see how a loss can be turned into a win.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

Interesting thread. Yes Duran and Hagler were pretty even up to the 12th most people were in shock the fight had lasted that long. It must of been embarrassing for the mighty Hagler, but he did put it on on Roberto the remaining final rounds with authoritive display of jabs. As for the Leonard-Hagler fight, it would have been interesting watching Leonard being pushed harder and sustaining the offense and defense he used in his tactics against Hagler because he sure was using alot of energy and movement, but he was no spring chicken in there. Yup I agree, had it gone 15 a less mobile Leonard would have been troubled by not only Haglers pressure, but an iron rod-like jab finding its place.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:30 PM   #29
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

The easiest way to answer this question is probably just to say that Leonard did what no one has done before or after.

Duran's perfomance was great, but it wasn't quite singular.

There is for example Whitaker's gallant losing effort against Trinidad. He must have given away at least as much in reach and height and even more in years. You also have a shot McCallum losing with dignity against a peaking Roy Jones. Then there's Conn, winning for 12 rds despite giving up 30 lbs to the arguably greatest HW ever. And Mickey Walker giving up just as much against Sharkey, yet getting a draw.

You can of course debate each of these to pieces, but the point is that there are cases that are comparable. As for Leonard's victory over Hagler, I don't think there is any that quite are comparable in the same way.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Duran vs Leonard who fought Hagler better?

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
The easiest way to answer this question is probably just to say that Leonard did what no one has done before or after.

Duran's perfomance was great, but it wasn't quite singular.

There is for example Whitaker's gallant losing effort against Trinidad. He must have given away at least as much in reach and height and even more in years. You also have a shot McCallum losing with dignity against a peaking Roy Jones. Then there's Conn, winning for 12 rds despite giving up 30 lbs to the arguably greatest HW ever. And Mickey Walker giving up just as much against Sharkey, yet getting a draw.

You can of course debate each of these to pieces, but the point is that there are cases that are comparable. As for Leonard's victory over Hagler, I don't think there is any that quite are comparable in the same way.
I agree with this. 60%ish of folks have Leonard beating Hagler. Nobody but two judges had Duran up after 12. Hagler was in better form(Younger, really, he fought like shit) against Duran, but NOTHING is more of a handicap, NOTHING, then being retired for HALF A DAMN DECADE.
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