Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-07-2013, 04:55 PM   #1
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Many will call blasphemy, as Moore doesn't have a single signature win as great as Duran-Leonard I. Moreover, he went 0-3 against Charles and lost both heavyweight championship fights, against Marciano and Patterson. However, let's not forget Duran went 1-4 against the Four and has neither the depth nor the longevity of Moore's resume. Who do you have higher and why?
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-07-2013, 04:56 PM   #2
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,061
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Moore 10-15
Duran 8-13

So it's ok by me.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 04:57 PM   #3
the cobra
Awesomeizationism!
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,982
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Duran, but I could see either guy anywhere from 7-12.
the cobra is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:01 PM   #4
KuRuPT
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,840
vCash: 500
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

You're it's blasphemy. I have Duran a full tier above Archie, and while that is still relatively close, it's more competitive than close ala SRL vs. Duran 1
KuRuPT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:12 PM   #5
Shake
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,587
vCash: 75
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Duran was the smallest of the Fab Four, though. Also, they were rather good. As in possibly top three head-to-head all-time in the respective weightclass Roberto fought them in.
Shake is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:17 PM   #6
KuRuPT
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,840
vCash: 500
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
A full tier above.

Okay.
Well yes, I have duran at no. 6 all time and I have Moore about 13 or so.. What about you
KuRuPT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:20 PM   #7
KuRuPT
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,840
vCash: 500
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
A full tier above, to me, is like saying they're on two completely different levels which obviously isn't true.

Why would you take it that way? Looking to disagree just to disagree? If I have Duran at 6 and Moore at 13.. one couldn't describe that as a tier above? Nobody is saying they are World's apart in skill.. if you're top 20 all time.. then you're some of the best of the best for sure.
KuRuPT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:37 PM   #8
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Depends on criteria really, no right or wrong lists as long as you're consistent
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:50 PM   #9
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
Many will call blasphemy, as Moore doesn't have a single signature win as great as Duran-Leonard I. Moreover, he went 0-3 against Charles and lost both heavyweight championship fights, against Marciano and Patterson. However, let's not forget Duran went 1-4 against the Four and has neither the depth nor the longevity of Moore's resume. Who do you have higher and why?
I rate Moore higher, although I haven't always. #7 for him, #9 for Duran.

Duran, I feel was slightly better at his peak, and of course his streak of 72-1 was excellent.

But Moore's career is truly incredible (not forgetting his 54-2-1 streak with more quality wins than Duran), and generally he faced tougher opposition and beat many more good/great fighters.

Duran was a great lightweight, but he simply does not have the equivalent of Johnson x4, Bivins x4 and Maxim x3 on his record. Moore has Lampkin and Palomino equivalents all over his record, if not one big victory like Leonard.

Duran had longevity, but Moore was out of this world. I strongly believe he was one of the ten greatest fighters in history and perhaps the most underrated for how good he was.
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:51 PM   #10
Boxed Ears
ESB #1 Name Changer!
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, USA
Posts: 24,727
vCash: 26665
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

I've had Duran in 6-9 slots and Moore in 10-15, similar to McGrain for a long time now. I don't think I ever worked it out with Moore over Duran, though I'm a bigger fan of Moore. ...I would love to change my mind.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 05:54 PM   #11
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
I've had Duran in 6-9 slots and Moore in 10-15, similar to McGrain for a long time now. I don't think I ever worked it out with Moore over Duran, though I'm a bigger fan of Moore. ...I would love to change my mind.
Uh oh, thread idea...
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 06:39 PM   #12
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Uh oh, thread idea...
There's too much to say, I'd be there all night...

... But I think I've figured out the main component of Moore's greatness.

His spirit. I seriously don't know any other fighter I'd rank above Moore in the 'heart' stakes. The Durelle fight would be a good indicator on its own, but there's so much more than that; Moore fought the absolute best over three full divisions, was knocked out, beaten up, ravaged by illness, broke his hands and kept poverty just about in check with a travelling schedule. He even fought in nine countries foreign to his own. Where Duran got fat and stayed fat, Moore got fat and then drained himself in between heavyweight fights to defend his title at 175lbs. It's astonishing to discover that a 1935 welterweight was the cause of a top ten rated, 211lbs heavyweight being 'carried from the ring on a stretcher' in 1962 after facing collectively the toughest opposition of all time (in my opinion, just in front of Greb, Langford and Rosenbloom).

I think you could take all the great light heavyweights, throw them into a time period and let them battle it out for years and years, and Moore would come out on top. His record would be spotty, he'd have been knocked out - he'd also have scored many knockouts himself - but he'd also be the one beating on Sam Langford twenty five years later after Spinks, Foster, Tunney and even Charles had dropped off somewhere down the line.

Duran, with respect, knows shit about against-all-odds next to Archie Moore.
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 07:52 PM   #13
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Just thought I'd post this comparison.

Fighters beaten by Duran who were at some point rated in The RING's annual top ten (Hall of Famers in bold):

Carlos Mendoza
Ernesto Marcel
Lloyd Marshall
Hiroshi Kobayashi
Javier Ayala
Hector Thompson
Guts Ishimatsu
Esteban De Jesus (x2)
Ray Lampkin
Edwin Viruet (x2)
Leoncio Ortiz
Saoul Mamby
Vilomar Fernandez
Adolfo Viruet
Jimmy Heair
Joseph Nsubuga
Davey Moore
Iran Barkley
Jorge Fernando Castro

Ken Buchanan
Carlos Palomino
Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas


Twenty five.
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 07:54 PM   #14
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Just thought I'd post this comparison.

Fighters beaten by Duran who were at some point rated in The RING's annual top ten (Hall of Famers in bold):

Carlos Mendoza
Ernesto Marcel
Lloyd Marshall
Hiroshi Kobayashi
Javier Ayala
Hector Thompson
Guts Ishimatsu
Esteban De Jesus (x2)
Ray Lampkin
Edwin Viruet (x2)
Leoncio Ortiz
Saoul Mamby
Vilomar Fernandez
Adolfo Viruet
Jimmy Heair
Joseph Nsubuga
Davey Moore
Iran Barkley
Jorge Fernando Castro

Ken Buchanan
Carlos Palomino
Ray Leonard
Pipino Cuevas


Twenty five.
Here is the same list, but for Moore - all rated at some point:

Sammy Slaughter
Ron Richards (x2)
Johnny Romero
Jack Chase (x4)
Nate Bolden (x2)
Fred Henneberry
Marty Simmons
Jack Coggins
George Kochan
Curtis Sheppard (x2)
Buddy Walker
Rusty Payne
Bert Lytell (x2)
Charley Williams (x3)
Billy Smith (x3)
Henry Hall
Alabama Kid (x2)
Bob Satterfield
Phil Muscato
Leonard Morrow
Jimmy Slade
Clarence Henry
Nino Valdes (x2)
Bob Baker
Bob Dunlap (x2)
Yolande Pompey
Tony Anthony
Willi Besmanoff (x2)
Charley Norkus
Yvon Durelle (x2)
Giulio Rinaldi
Alejandro Lavorante

Jimmy Bivins (x4)
Harold Johnson (x4)
Joey Maxim (x3)
Lloyd Marshall (x2)
Carl Olson
Holman Williams
Cocoa Kid


Sixty four I believe.

(This is the minimum for both fighters - Moore's list is updated; I just found another eight wins I'd missed previously).
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 08:01 PM   #15
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Should Archie Moore rank higher than Duran?

I know Duran has the Leonard win. And I know he was more consistent (weaker opposition and more comfortable circumstances). But I can't believe I used to rate him higher than Moore.
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013