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Old 02-07-2013, 04:45 AM   #76
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by Farmboxer View Post
Calzaghe would have beaten Ward. It's time for Ward to fight Vitali or Vladimir Klitschko and back up his claims that he can beat all fighters in any weight division. HBO should show that Fight ASAP. My money would be on Klitschko by knockout, total mismatch...............
good contribution to the debate
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:47 AM   #77
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by Jan(DK) View Post
Styles make fights - and Calzaghes style would be lethal against Ward. Faster hands, more activity and more angels..............ofcause I dont know who would win, but against Calzaghe, Ward would be tested ...................

Style wise Martinez is up there too.............
His fast hands didn't prove to be lethal against old man B-Hop.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:11 AM   #78
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by conraddobler View Post
VYSOTSKY FACT CHECK ALERT!


(Fact-checking Vysotsky -- it's a full time -- and ultimately thankless -- job.)

Roy Jones was born January 16th, 1969.

Joe Calzaghe was born March 23, 1972.

Normally, I would say: you do the math.

But, no, I'm going to be thorough.

According to Boxrec:

Roy and Joe fought on 11/08/2008:

Roy Jones was 39 years old and 6 months

Joe Calzaghe was 36 years and 4 months.

That's a difference of over 3 years.

Good job mate, the age difference is a common misconception.

Roy was actually a little older than what you've put too.

He was 39 and almost 10 months. He was around 9 weeks away from being 40.

Joe was about 4 months from his 37th birthday.

But you're right, there was a difference of over three years.

But the POINT is,

Roy had got a lot more miles on the clock.

He'd had more fights, and he'd been to heavyweight and back.

Joe had never put his body through something like that.

Joe was clearly the fresher fighter.

Roy hadn't fought at elite level for 3 years, and he hadn't won at that level for 5 years.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:09 AM   #79
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Good job mate, the age difference is a common misconception.

Roy was actually a little older than what you've put too.

He was 39 and almost 10 months. He was around 9 weeks away from being 40.

Joe was about 4 months from his 37th birthday.

But you're right, there was a difference of over three years.

But the POINT is,

Roy had got a lot more miles on the clock.

He'd had more fights, and he'd been to heavyweight and back.

Joe had never put his body through something like that.

Joe was clearly the fresher fighter.

Roy hadn't fought at elite level for 3 years, and he hadn't won at that level for 5 years.
Hi there mate,

How have you been?

Looking forward to Froch-Kessler?

I know I am




Why do people get so hung up on the Calzaghe-Jones fight.

Most of his fans don't rate it that highly, I know I don't. It was just a payday fight for both of them end of. Yes Joe got knocked down, but I rate his great recovery powers above his good chin. However, he then got up to dominate the rest of the fight to a near shut out.

As for Joe vs Ward, very tough fight to call as although Ward is exceptionally skilled, Joe is such an unorthodox fighter it's hard for anyone to properly prepare for that.

However, if we were talking prime Joe that while guilty for hanging around Wales for too long despite fighting some good fights, had good power as well as the same workrate I'd give Joe a close UD maybe 116-112 or 115-113 assumng no-oe got KD'd which is entirely possible. Just because despite what people say Ward did indeed gas against Froch and Bika and Joe's stamina is almost unrivaled at SMW which I feel he'll start well and then Ward will get some bearing to take the middle rounds, but Joe will tire him out and finish strong to just pip it.

How do you see it going?

I'll always maintain the only SMW I'd pick to beat Calzaghe is RJJ.


As an aside what do you think about Floyd Mayweather declaring Devon Alexander could be his next fighter?

Unfair on Kell Brook

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Old 02-07-2013, 07:52 AM   #80
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by flashy k.o View Post
The truth is that Ward is becoming a better fighter than a prime Hopkins or a prime RJJ!
let's not get carried away. prime jones would put twice the beating on everyone ward's beat. that version of dawson comes in the ring against a prime jones...dawson has to get scraped off the canvas and may or may not continue fighting.

he's got a ways to go before you start putting him a level above prime hopkins and jones.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:20 AM   #81
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by HitBattousai View Post
It would be a good fight, definitely the toughest of both their careers. That said, Ward's defense is just flat too good and like the Hopkins fight, I think Joe would have a very hard time connecting cleanly, and unlike that fight, Ward will be coming back with a lot of clean punches on a consistent basis. Ward UD win, probably something like 116-112.
Agreed, plus a lot of Calzaghe fans read far to much into the Hopkins fight in relation to Calzaghe's boxing abilities and how he would fare against other fighters. Afterall Jermaine Taylor looked better against a younger Hopkins, yet Calzaghe fans just dismiss that and Calzaghe's much lauded workrate was only enough to earn a debatable SD against a 43-year-old. The people who think Calzaghe wins this easily are the same people who thought Kessler was going to just walk through Ward and knock him out, basically these people don't understand what it is they are looking at when they watch boxing.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:45 AM   #82
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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What in red confuses you? Chris hurt Joe in the 12th. The preceding sentence reads "It isn't as though Joe's never been hurt or dropped whatsoever" in case you thought I was listing only people who'd dropped him.

If it was the part about him being shot, well he was certainly on the downward slope, every bit as much as Calzaghe was against Jones and Hopkins. So...let's keep it consistent.



I don't know, man. The examples I cited were actually dotted throughout Joe's career, not just the end. You chose to focus in on the Jones KD and add the Hopkins one (which I didn't even mention).

I don't think it's irrelevant in the least that Ward was green in 2004/5 and getting caught with dumb shots, both of which he didn't see coming because he was young and reckless...

Shaken up by Kost in the 1st, 6:43 of the video:
BORKED

Boone round 4 knockdown, slow motion replay at start of video:
BORKED

Youthful mistakes were the culprit, and not a glass jaw. While both Kenny & Darnell did legitimately rattle his cage, he recovered from both with aplomb.

You can't possibly be suggesting that Ward of then was closer to Ward of now than Calzaghe of 2008 was to his peak self?

Ward has improved tenfold since those days...no less so than Wladimir Klitschko did after his KO losses and hooking up with Manny.



...and what exactly are Joe's feather fists going to do to Ward??
Great post. Can't really hold those fight against him since they where ages ago. Now he is n#2 p4p and has beaten alot of good opponents.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:48 AM   #83
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Great post. Can't really hold those fight against him since they where ages ago. Now he is n#2 p4p and has beaten alot of good opponents.


It isn't so much a matter of his punch resistance improving as he's less apt now to get nailed with stupid ones on the button.

Also, there is some merit to figuring that he can stand up to a little more having filled out and taken on his man-strength since he was 19-21.

I am in no way convinced that Calzaghe's punch resistance at 36 was further removed from where it was at his peak than Ward's at 19-21 is from now.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:52 AM   #84
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

He may be more complete in terms of overall technical ability but that doesn't mean he's a better fighter. Calzaghe has very underrated ring IQ and figured out outboxed and adjusted to Hopkins, who by all standards is a ring genius in his own right, in the second half of their fight. I see Calzaghe giving Ward all he can handle and possibly outworking him to a UD win.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:53 AM   #85
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by Arran View Post
calzahe whoops him. ward is hit way to often and way to slow for calazaghe. if ward was german this convo wouldnt even be happening but as his passport has USA on it.....I mean even Froch who is in no means quick and more a limited slugger type landed 30% of his punches on Ward (kessler landed 35%). Plus calzaghe didnt get dropped by a no-name bum and fight out of Newport his entire career.
Plus Wards dirty tactics wouldn't work on Calzaghe, nor would be stronger, fitter, tougher or faster.

Calzaghe would adapt and Ward would get slapped silly. Jeff Lacy style.
Calzaghe UD or late stoppage. Simply a better fighter.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:57 AM   #86
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by Pimp C View Post
He may be more complete in terms of overall technical ability but that doesn't mean he's a better fighter. Calzaghe has very underrated ring IQ and figured out outboxed and adjusted to Hopkins, who by all standards is a ring genius in his own right, in the second half of their fight. I see Calzaghe giving Ward all he can handle and possibly outworking him to a UD win.
Intangibles do matter, great observation.

That said, I think Ward is up there with Calzaghe when it comes to boxing-as-chess and making adjustments on the fly.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:02 PM   #87
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by IntentionalButt View Post
Intangibles do matter, great observation.

That said, I think Ward is up there with Calzaghe when it comes to boxing-as-chess and making adjustments on the fly.


You're right Ward can make adjustments with the best of them. IMO his biggest liability isn't his lack of power but rather his lack of great athletic ability, if he had this he would be nearly unbeatable, combined with his already great technical skills. I would slightly favor Calzaghe in this math up because of it.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:17 PM   #88
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by Jo Ber View Post
Who is this Ward you're comparing with Calzaghe? Is he related to Sven Ottke by any chance? Checking his resume i'd say yes, he could be his nephew
Oh wow, look how funny you are.

I can't wait for someone to up the ante with a clever retort involving "Calslappy"!

Pretty high standard being set in here...
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:55 PM   #89
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by Farmboxer View Post
Calzaghe would have beaten Ward. It's time for Ward to fight Vitali or Vladimir Klitschko and back up his claims that he can beat all fighters in any weight division. HBO should show that Fight ASAP. My money would be on Klitschko by knockout, total mismatch...............
Even if Ward beat Wlad he would get no credit from some people. The logic would go something like this; Ward beat Wlad, who lost to Sanders, who lost to Rahman, who lost to Ruiz, who lost to Jones, who lost to Calzaghe.

Ward is just beating Super Joe's leftovers
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:12 PM   #90
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Default Re: Ward's a more complete fighter than Calzaghe ...

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Originally Posted by flashy k.o View Post
Calzaghe is a great undefeated champion who beat lots of good fighters like Eubank , Ferreyra , Robin Reid , Lacy , Bika , Kessler , Hopkins and RJJ but Ward is on another level of skills and he masters very well his craft , period.

I don't even want to think what Ward would do to Calzaghe with his inside roughness game.

How do you see this fight going ?

Ward is on another level light years above Calslappy its not even a fair comparison.
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