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Old 02-09-2013, 01:33 PM   #16
Vysotsky
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

Bare knuckles or 4-5oz horse hair gloves also make body shots alot more painful so a low guard would help protect the body.

This is a great video that outlines some of the differences in stance compared to the modern era and shows a higher sophistication from what has become standard for the majority of modern boxers.

BORKED
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:14 PM   #17
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

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Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
Bare knuckles or 4-5oz horse hair gloves also make body shots alot more painful so a low guard would help protect the body.
Bingo.

If you look at a boxing manual from around 1900, it is very similar to one from today. The only obvious difference is in terms of the hand position it recommends. They recommend holding the hands lower to intercept body shots.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

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Originally Posted by brnxhands View Post
I always hear people say the sport evolved, which it definitely did in some ways, but I think it was too hard to keep a high guard for as long as their fights went
People should try shadow boxing without glove for 10/12 rounds, and see if they can keep their hands up the whole time. Even in today's game boxers still don't keep their hands up the whole time.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:03 PM   #19
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

Fundamental boxing says that you keep your gaurd up at all times. I can't think of any all time great who dose this.
I have a theory that says footwork, keeping and controling distance provides more protection than blocking punches. The hands and also arms provide a small arera, and leave a lot of gaps. It also takes more engery to keep the hands up than it dose to keep them a bit low.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:08 PM   #20
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

After watching Charley Burley, this was my observation:

Burley was clearly from an earlier era. His hair was slicked down and parted in the middle, like the pictures of Greb and Mickey Walker. His stance could have come right off the cover of the Police Gazette -- palms facing him, not sideways, as we're used to seeing now. It had that John L. Sullivan look.

The only thing missing to complete the picture were those skin-tight, knee-length trunks with the tied silk sash hanging down. Burley was an anachronism.

He moved well and circled in the pocket, but his stance resembled Max Schmeling's against Joe Louis, with his head appearing to be forward but all his weight and body back on his right foot.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:10 PM   #21
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripcity View Post
Fundamental boxing says that you keep your gaurd up at all times. I can't think of any all time great who dose this.
I have a theory that says footwork, keeping and controling distance provides more protection than blocking punches. The hands and also arms provide a small arera, and leave a lot of gaps. It also takes more engery to keep the hands up than it dose to keep them a bit low.
If you block a punch, you don't stop the combination.
Your opponent stays in balance because he expected his punch to be stopped by something (Be it a head or a glove, doesn't matter)
Dodging or parrying a punch means his punch doesn't get stopped, it goes further than he intented it to be, when you dodge or parry a punch you directly put your opponent off balance and open for a counter.

(And if an opponent puts so little weight behind his punch that he doesn't punch himself off balance when he misses a punch, his glove is still further from his face than when he wouldn't have missed the punch and is still more open for a counter)


I think your theory is right.

Ricardo Lopez always kept his guard up though, even 20 seconds before a new round started he would have his gloves up.
But he was 105 lbs, and smaller guys have relatively more stamina than bigger men.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:13 PM   #22
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

I would say that most top fighters of the past would say, "you don't block punches, you slip them".
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:21 PM   #23
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

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Originally Posted by AlFrancis View Post
I would say that most top fighters of the past would say, "you don't block punches, you slip them".
Slipping is better than blocking.

But when you can't slip, you block.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna View Post
Smaller gloves meaning blocking punches with your arms meant they would get bruised. (not a funny feeling)
Longer rounds.
Lack of knowledge.

Factors...factors

Probably smaller gloves is the biggest reason


problem with this theory is that mma guys in 4 oz gloves
keep their hands super high

and often use a high guard, and to block punches
they lift the arm up higher because of the gloves
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:42 PM   #25
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

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Originally Posted by highguard View Post
problem with this theory is that mma guys in 4 oz gloves
keep their hands super high

and often use a high guard, and to block punches
they lift the arm up higher because of the gloves
and MMA fighters are elite strikers.....

The most obvious reason is they aren't good strikers, alot of them are wrestlers or BJJ guys who have only been striking for a couple years yet are already top MMA fighters. Also in MMA you have to stand more square since you have to worry about take down defense and leg kicks. A high guard is the most simplistic defense requiring the least amount of skill which is why they use it. One could argue the same for alot of modern fighters. Slipping, rolling, parrying, using your shoulder requires alot more practice and skill
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:53 PM   #26
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

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Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
and MMA fighters are elite strikers.....

The most obvious reason is they aren't good strikers, alot of them are wrestlers or BJJ guys who have only been striking for a couple years yet are already top MMA fighters. Also in MMA you have to stand more square since you have to worry about take down defense and leg kicks. A high guard is the most simplistic defense requiring the least amount of skill which is why they use it. One could argue the same for alot of modern fighters. Slipping, rolling, parrying, using your shoulder requires alot more practice and skill

some of them are elite strikers yes
and rolling and using your shoulders wont work as well
when the guy will throw a kick or elbow after a punch


and ofcourse they are not wont be as good in boxing as boxers
because they learn other stuff as well


and just to defend them, and i know this has to do alot with the gloves
but still some of them have sick one punch power
and dont end hitting each other 400 times with no visible sign of damage

just when you said skilled?
they are very skilled, it is just not spefieic like boxing

since they train a mix of
wrestling
boxing
muay thai
bjj
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:03 PM   #27
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

anyways the point was that
you could do high guard with small gloves
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #28
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

In the early days, you didn't have that many guys fighting behind a jab. It's a lot easier to keep your hands where you want to when you don't have to worry about a jab constantly hitting you in the face. Furthermore, the gloves back then were much smaller, like 5 or 6 ounces, which made them less useful for defense up top.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:05 PM   #29
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

Quote:
Originally Posted by highguard View Post
some of them are elite strikers yes
and rolling and using your shoulders wont work as well
when the guy will throw a kick or elbow after a punch


and ofcourse they are not wont be as good in boxing as boxers
because they learn other stuff as well


and just to defend them, and i know this has to do alot with the gloves
but still some of them have sick one punch power
and dont end hitting each other 400 times with no visible sign of damage

just when you said skilled?
they are very skilled, it is just not spefieic like boxing

since they train a mix of
wrestling
boxing
muay thai
bjj
Care to tell me what any of this shit has to do with the stance discussion. You brought MMA fighters and the use of a high guard seemingly trying to claim it as evidence of it being more effective or skillfull.

and no MMA fighters are not good strikers. JDS got clowned by a non elite brazilian MW amateur. Anderson Silva's boxing fight is pitiful, Overeem who won the K1 GP has shitty ****ing hands, defense and is a roided faggot with a glass jaw.
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:14 PM   #30
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Default Re: Old time fighters stances question

Quote:
Originally Posted by ripcity View Post
Fundamental boxing says that you keep your gaurd up at all times. I can't think of any all time great who dose this.
I have a theory that says footwork, keeping and controling distance provides more protection than blocking punches. The hands and also arms provide a small arera, and leave a lot of gaps. It also takes more engery to keep the hands up than it dose to keep them a bit low.
Most boxers don't have the footwork and reflexes necessary to keep their hands low and not get hit in the face, especially with jabs.
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