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Old 02-12-2013, 08:50 AM   #76
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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I was a big fan of Leonard's in the day although more Duran. If he had of fought those others and beat them he would of been my top pěck most definitely even if he had of lost to Hagler but give him a fight. As for Bonds and Finch, I think all champs of the past haven't always fought the very top man every time out. I think I'd of definitely picked him over Pryor who I always thought of as a lightweight.
You look at the Ring ratings end of 1980 and 81 and Leonard had already beaten most of those fellas on his way up the rankings. It's a shame he had the eye problem because as you say there was a good looking young generation coming up in Curry, McCallum, McCrory and Starling. Can't see none of them though ready for Leonard circa 82 except perhaps Mccallum at light middle.
How do see a Hagler Leonard fight going 1984? Hagler younger and Leonard without the break in his career and a solid light middleweight who could box. I don't think it would of been that much of a foregone conclusion as everyone thinks. Leonard in 84 after the layoff, I would give no chance.


I think pryor vs leonard would of been a great fight I think leonard would of won . hagler vs leonard in 84 for me whether leonard had still been active or coming back like he did against howard I see hagler winning
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:52 AM   #77
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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How do see a Hagler Leonard fight going 1984? Hagler younger and Leonard without the break in his career and a solid light middleweight who could box. I don't think it would of been that much of a foregone conclusion as everyone thinks. Leonard in 84 after the layoff, I would give no chance.
Leonard was not a light middleweight - he fought there a couple of times but was a bona fide welterweight at that time . He went from WW in 1982 to MW directly in 1987.

Hagler would not have gone down to 154 to fight Leonard.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:04 AM   #78
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Yeah, and if Hagler had spent 85-86 defending against Graham, Kalambay and McCallum as well and then went up to challenge Virgil Hill he wouldn't have suffered the ignomity of losing to Leonard. Actually he'd probably lost to one of Kalambay and McCallum before even coming to challenging Hill (which he of course never would anyway).

maybe he would of lost to one of the three boxers you mentioned as he was not in his prime anymore but if he had got through those three and moved up to light-heavy in 87 for one fight to win another world tittle I think the petronelli's and arum would of gone for bobby czyz not Hill but he would also not of asked czyz to fight at a catchweight
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:08 AM   #79
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Leonard was not a light middleweight? Leonard in 84 was a bona fide welterweight, he had never fought at 154 did he? Or maybe once at some stage if that. He went from WW in 1982 to MW directly in 1987.

Hagler would not have gone down to 154 to fight Leonard.
No, I'm talking about if he hadn't had the layoff with the detached retina and had carried on boxing throughout 82 and onwards. Leonard had fought up at lightmiddle in a one off against Ayub Kalule in 1981, a fight I thought that the extra weight was to his detriment.
I'm not suggesting in any way that Hagler should of faced him at lightmiddle in 84 just that Leonard would of been about that weight.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:12 AM   #80
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

This is all getting very hypothetical!
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:29 AM   #81
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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This is all getting very hypothetical!

it was inevitable
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:57 AM   #82
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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maybe he would of lost to one of the three boxers you mentioned as he was not in his prime anymore but if he had got through those three and moved up to light-heavy in 87 for one fight to win another world tittle I think the petronelli's and arum would of gone for bobby czyz not Hill but he would also not of asked czyz to fight at a catchweight
Don't remember Leonard asking Hagler to fight at a catchweight. He was perfectly happy to beat him at MW.

Yes, I know you're referring to LaLonde, but since he was a LHW and Leonard a natural WW that would be like Hagler challenging a title holding CW. Since he didn't even try the step up to LHW he of course never would challenge a CW to start with, catch-weight or not. Since he just didn't have the balls Leonard did.

Hagler was much more comfortable fighting smaller fighters as we know. You're talking about catch-weights? Well, that's what Hopkin's agreed to when fighting a former LW, even though DLH was younger than him. Hagler took no such risk against the older Duran, but still couldn't put him away.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:59 AM   #83
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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No, I'm talking about if he hadn't had the layoff with the detached retina and had carried on boxing throughout 82 and onwards. Leonard had fought up at lightmiddle in a one off against Ayub Kalule in 1981, a fight I thought that the extra weight was to his detriment.
I'm not suggesting in any way that Hagler should of faced him at lightmiddle in 84 just that Leonard would of been about that weight.
Well he did fight Kevin Howard in 1984 in a one off and that was at welterweight...
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:11 AM   #84
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Don't remember Leonard asking Hagler to fight at a catchweight. He was perfectly happy to beat him at MW.

Yes, I know you're referring to LaLonde, but since he was a LHW and Leonard a natural WW that would be like Hagler challenging a title holding CW. Since he didn't even try the step up to LHW he of course never would challenge a CW to start with, catch-weight or not. Since he just didn't have the balls Leonard did.

Hagler was much more comfortable fighting smaller fighters as we know. You're talking about catch-weights? Well, that's what Hopkin's agreed to when fighting a former LW, even though DLH was younger than him. Hagler took no such risk against the older Duran, but still couldn't put him away.

yep I was referring to the lalonde fight, leonard had the balls when he had the advantage of knowing lalonde would be weight drained to be honest I think leonard would of beaten lalonde without that advantage but leonard being leonard had to get every advantage he could . cherry picker yes , clever absoloutely
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:12 AM   #85
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Don't remember Leonard asking Hagler to fight at a catchweight. He was perfectly happy to beat him at MW.

Yes, I know you're referring to LaLonde, but since he was a LHW and Leonard a natural WW that would be like Hagler challenging a title holding CW. Since he didn't even try the step up to LHW he of course never would challenge a CW to start with, catch-weight or not. Since he just didn't have the balls Leonard did.

Hagler was much more comfortable fighting smaller fighters as we know. You're talking about catch-weights? Well, that's what Hopkin's agreed to when fighting a former LW, even though DLH was younger than him. Hagler took no such risk against the older Duran, but still couldn't put him away.
Yep, Monroe, Briscoe, Hart, Watts, Seales, Antuofermo were all really small...He walked around at mid 160`s why would he step up ? He dominated the division since 78. Valdes didn`t want him, so he defends against Corro.Then Corro ducked him, he got screwed against Vito. He owned the division from `78` - `87`. Learn your history ...One more for you, in his last tournament in the amateurs, he was fighting at 156. There wasn`t anyone on the nationals at that weight for him. So he stepped up to 165 and won the nationals fighting 10 lbs under. Learn your facts ...
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:13 AM   #86
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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yep I was referring to the lalonde fight, leonard had the balls when he had the advantage of knowing lalonde would be weight drained to be honest I think leonard would of beaten lalonde without that advantage but leonard being leonard had to get every advantage he could . cherry picker yes , clever absoloutely
And guys, we`re talking about Lalonde... Not exactly Michael Spinks ...
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:26 AM   #87
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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confession I have leonards career set but if he had replaced finch and bonds with pryor and a rematch with hearns or even a young don curry and faced hagler instead of howard in 84 and got a win now that would of been impressive . although to be honest I think if he had faced hagler in 84 he would of got ko'd


If a man doesn't want to fight you, what can you do? Pryor was scared to death of Leonard and wanted nothing to do with him.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #88
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Well he did fight Kevin Howard in 1984 in a one off and that was at welterweight...
Yes but he hadn't been active for 2 years, just read my original comment.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:29 AM   #89
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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You are THE true boxing genius on here ...I think you should strt a thread and see how many people are on board with your Norris love-fest... Mullings, Brown, Jackosn, Rosenblatt should we continue dear friend ??? If you want to start a `greatest anything post involving Terrible Terry. Maybe you should start with china chins Rooster, where do you rank Julian Jackon ? After all he left your boy a quivering wreck in their `fight` ???
still had more of a career than Leonard. leonard's was sub par by comparison. just a couple of big name fighters, one of them shot by the time.

While TN took Sugar hismelf and tied him in knots. no contest.

i think the Norris fight was a very good barometer of Sugar's true abilities

he was supposed to take Norris no sweat. the thinking goes if he was as good as you all say, if he really were fighter of the decade, shouldnt he have won without a problem?

it was only in his previous match that he dominated every round

Anyways, I loved the fight cuz it gave Sugar a chance to shut up all of us critics

instead, it only proved us right all along

easy to see why Sugar needed 5 yrs to call out Hagler

Here's my top 5 of the 80s (in order). anything else is a joke

Hagler
Spinks
Sanchez
Tyson
McCallum
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:33 AM   #90
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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If a man doesn't want to fight you, what can you do? Pryor was scared to death of Leonard and wanted nothing to do with him.

pryor would of fought leonard he wanted the pay-day
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