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Old 02-07-2013, 10:32 PM   #1
the_bigunit
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Default Please critique my personal top-10...

I would like to assure all readers that I have the utmost respect for any man who laces up the gloves and enters a boxing ring for a living, especially, the following men listed and the few who just missed out.

But friends, I present this list with the sole intention to learn as much as possible. Not to, in any way, convey some sort of special divine insight on boxing.

So I ask for your help. Here is my list; critique it, destroy it, criticize it, in ANY fashion you want. Please, any and all feedback is appreciated. I only want to learn as much as possible.

EDIT:


1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Benny Leonard
6. Bob Fitzsimmons
7. Willie Pep
8. Roberto Duran
9. Ezzard Charles
10. Mickey Walker


Top-22: (in no order)
Ezzard Charles, Ray Leonard, Muhammad Ali, Barney Ross, Archie Moore, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Pernell Whittaker, Joe Gans, Packey McFarland, Charley Burley, Barbados Walcott

Last edited by the_bigunit; 02-11-2013 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:39 PM   #2
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

Seems solid.

I'm considering whether or not the fab 4 belong in the same tier.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10 ...

looks like a solid enough list...Nothing to much to poke holes at, we all have slight varibles...Duran does not crack my top 10, but he does for most....I also like the Louis over Ali pick. Whitaker and burley (although I love the pick) might be a bit high.

01 SRR
02 Greb
03 Armstrong
04 Langford
05 Charles
06 Fitzsimmons
07 B. Leonard
08 Pep
09 Moore
10 Louis
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

Nothing wrong with that list.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10 P4P...

You seem like a conscientious poster and that list is perfectly reasonable. As a whole top twenty two, I have nearly all of the same names.

My definitive top eleven is, for comparison:

1. Harry Greb
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Ray Robinson
4. Benny Leonard
5. Sam Langford
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Archie Moore
8. Willie Pep
9. Roberto Duran
10. Bob Fitzsimmons
11. Joe Gans

P.S. - I have nothing against heavyweights, but Louis & Ali feature a little lower. Roughly #14 and #15. Perhaps the heavyweight talent pool was slightly smaller and they fought a bit less, and that most fighters bigger were generally less skilled (as opposed to Ike Williams fighting Kid Gavilan above him, say).
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

Gotta have Charles in there IMO but other than that it's a damned good one.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bigunit View Post
I would like to assure all readers that I have the utmost respect for any man who laces up the gloves and enters a boxing ring for a living, especially, the following men listed and the few who just missed out.

But friends, I present this list with the sole intention to learn as much as possible. Not to, in any way, convey some sort of special divine insight on boxing.

So I ask for your help. Here is my list; critique it, destroy it, criticize it, in ANY fashion you want. Please, any and all feedback is appreciated. I only want to learn as much as possible.



1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Benny Leonard
6. Bob Fitzsimmons
7. Willie Pep
8. Roberto Duran
9. Mickey Walker
10. Joe Louis

Top-22: (in no order)
Ezzard Charles, Ray Leonard, Muhammad Ali, Barney Ross, Archie Moore, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin, Pernell Whittaker, Joe Gans, Packey McFarland, Charley Burley, Barbados Walcott
Not a major critique (OK it might be), but on second look, I would wonder why Charles did not crack that top 10...I really can't see him lower than 7...just curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
Gotta have Charles in there IMO but other than that it's a damned good one.
darn...beat me to it!
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:01 PM   #8
turbotime
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

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Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post

darn...beat me to it!
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:02 PM   #9
the_bigunit
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

I reckoned the lack of Charles in my top-10 would be the biggest gripe. For me, I guess he wasn't on clear top of a division for long enough? I understand I could be wrong.

But I'm here to learn. Someone care to persuade me?
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

delete

Last edited by Boxed Ears; 06-05-2013 at 04:02 AM.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

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Originally Posted by the_bigunit View Post
I reckoned the lack of Charles in my top-10 would be the biggest gripe. For me, I guess he wasn't on clear top of a division for long enough? I understand I could be wrong.

But I'm here to learn. Someone care to persuade me?
If you could imagine Muhammad Ali going 3-0 against Joe Louis (Moore), 4-1 against Harry Wills (Bivins) and 5-0 against Ken Norton (Maxim), then you're half way to understanding why Charles is so highly regarded. Charles had Hall of Fame wins over Burley, Yarosz, Louis, Marshall, Walcott and a whole host of contenders to add to that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:34 PM   #12
the_bigunit
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
If you could imagine Muhammad Ali going 3-0 against Joe Louis (Moore), 4-1 against Harry Wills (Bivins) and 5-0 against Ken Norton (Maxim), then you're half way to understanding why Charles is so highly regarded. Charles had Hall of Fame wins over Burley, Yarosz, Louis, Marshall, Walcott and a whole host of contenders to add to that.

I know I know. Those names are incredible. I think I don't appreciate it enough because it was packed into those 3 or 4 years?
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

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I know I know. Those names are incredible. I think I don't appreciate it enough because it was packed into those 3 or 4 years.
Yeah that's fine. But in fairness you should maybe rate Armstrong lower if you think that. Armstrong's career before 1937 combined with his post 1940 career would get him rated about #35 all-time on its own as one of the greatest non-champions, but it's that 59-1-1 streak (should have been 61-0) that catapults him right up there, with eighteen welterweight defences as a lightweight and former featherweight.

Charles is similar. He beat some top fighters before and after his peak, but during that peak he went 13-0 over Hall of Famers, three of them over his consensus all-time #2.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:51 PM   #14
the_bigunit
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Yeah that's fine. But in fairness you should maybe rate Armstrong lower if you think that. Armstrong's career before 1937 combined with his post 1940 career would get him rated about #35 all-time on its own as one of the greatest non-champions, but it's that 59-1-1 streak (should have been 61-0) that catapults him right up there, with eighteen welterweight defences as a lightweight and former featherweight.

Charles is similar. He beat some top fighters before and after his peak, but during that peak he went 13-0 over Hall of Famers, three of them over his consensus all-time #2.

Nice! That's some legendary stuff. And you make great points.

Okay so I put Charles in -- whose the odd man out? Louis? I hate taking out a guy who reigned over a division like he did!
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: *** Please castrate my personal top-10...

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Nice! That's some legendary stuff. And you make great points.

Okay so I put Charles in -- whose the odd man out? Louis? I hate taking out a guy who reigned over a division like he did!
Louis is difficult. Personally I find it hard to rate him over Ali, but it seems wrong to rate him more than a place or two away. Such a long, dominant reign. But then he simply doesn't have the quality like the others do. Schmeling and Walcott were his best wins, and both also beat him (bad decision against Walcott). Benny Leonard, for example, demonstrated clear superiority over Lew Tendler and Jack Britton (welterweight).

I only really know bits and pieces about Walker but I tend to consider Joe Gans his superior, and Canzoneri his rough equal, all just outside the top ten.

I'd take out Louis personally. Comes down to dominance versus punching above weight.

You could consider Gans. Every now and then people will rate him top five.
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