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Old 02-13-2013, 02:26 PM   #31
Bill1234
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Default Re: What does the Forum think on Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Flo

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
I like Marciano versus Patterson prime for prime. I like prime Marciano versus just about any sub 200 pounder ever. Sometimes, I vacillate on this to a degree but not by much.

1956? I don't know how much Marciano had left in the tank. The ****ell fight doesn't give one much confidence. Moore put some hurt on him and we all know what Patterson did to Moore. I think Marciano still pulls this one out but gets off the canvas a couple times and is down on the cards when he stops Floyd. By 1959, though, no way.
Just to nitpick, I don't think Moore put much hurt on Marciano. Flash knockdown aside, Marciano walked through him and pounded him.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:55 PM   #32
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Default Re: What does the Forum think on Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Flo

Patterson would've been too much for Marciano had they met in 1959. Speed kills and Floyd would've used his speed advantage to outland Rocky and possibly stop him late though he most likely would have decisioned him. The Moore fight showed everyone that Rocky, though still formidable was on the decline. He was fighting smarter but his body was beginning to betray him. You could see that his punches weren't as crisp as they once were and though never a speed demon, He didn't move with the speed he once had. The Moore fight was a good aurevoir for Rocky. If he had tried to comeback against Patterson in '59 Rocky would not have eneded his career undefeated.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: What does the Forum think on Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Flo

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Patterson would've been too much for Marciano had they met in 1959. Speed kills and Floyd would've used his speed advantage to outland Rocky and possibly stop him late though he most likely would have decisioned him. The Moore fight showed everyone that Rocky, though still formidable was on the decline. He was fighting smarter but his body was beginning to betray him. You could see that his punches weren't as crisp as they once were and though never a speed demon, He didn't move with the speed he once had. The Moore fight was a good aurevoir for Rocky. If he had tried to comeback against Patterson in '59 Rocky would not have eneded his career undefeated.
I agree....I think this played a factor in Marciano comin back, a blemish on his perfect record.
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Old 02-13-2013, 10:12 PM   #34
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Default Re: What does the Forum think on Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Flo

Floyd said himself he would fight the way his opponent would come at him ''if they would box i would box if they wanted to slug we'd slug, Marciano's not going to come out and box and try to outjab Floyd, and what happens when Floyd is fighting it out with Rocky...A knockout
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:45 PM   #35
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

I now expect to see a bunch of "Floyd Ducked Rocky Threads"

Patterson would have won. I can't see Marciano wining the championship after that long of a lay off.
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Old 02-13-2013, 11:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

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Originally Posted by ripcity View Post
I now expect to see a bunch of "Floyd Ducked Rocky Threads"

Patterson would have won. I can't see Marciano wining the championship after that long of a lay off.
I can if he came back at 70% of what he was when he retired. If Patterson chose to bang with Rocky it'd have ended badly for him. His speed would keep him up on the cards (unless he was getting dropped frequently) but Marciano would land a punch in the 1st that would still be felt 5 rounds later.

Like I said earlier, Ingo was more flawed and more hittable than Patterson. What he had going for him was a very powerful right hand that he knew how to land, and he knew how to land it early. Marciano was a slow starter and I can't imagine he'd have started any quicker with the layoff. Ingo would have to get him early or Marciano would get him late.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

I do know that before Marciano retired there was talks of having a Marciano/Patterson exhibition match on network television scheduled for three rounds; but nobody was interested in doing the match unless the title was on the line in an actual match, not an exhibition. At the time Patterson had not yet fought as a heavyweight.

Marciano didn't have that many choices left as it was, Baker and Valdes were both eliminated by the commissions because of their horrible performance against one another. Earl Walls was considered, but he retired instead. A rematch with Moore didn't seem necessary and wouldnt of drawn the money Marciano would have wanted.

He waited a few more months, but nothing ever came, and then he shit canned it all. When Patterson became champion, talks were ongoing, but the truth was Cus D'Amato didn't want Patterson to face Marciano, he had bigger things in mind (dictating the pace of the IBC board). When Johansson upset Patterson, Marciano's interests perked up. It was during the rematch that Marciano said on commentary that he was very interested in fighting the winner; of course Patterson won the rematch, and again D'Amato blocked it. Marciano then signed a contract, that if Johansson defeated Patterson in the rubber match he would use his championship emeritus to fight Johansson in his maiden defense. Marciano began training, found the road to getting in shape to be hard, but continued on anyways; and again Patterson won, and Marciano lost his chance at regaining the title.

When Sonny Liston was champion, rumors surfaced of negotiations for a Liston/Marciano match, but this stemmed from an altercation at Liston's training camp. Marciano was there, and overheard a reporter ask Liston if he could have beaten Marciano in his prime and Liston said yes and went a step further saying he would have beaten him bloody. Marciano then challenged Liston right then and there in the gym to a fight, and Liston declined. That is the extent of that rumor. From that time onwards Marciano criticized Liston as a bully and a coward and said whoever could stand up to him would defeat him, which was proven when Ali defeated Liston.

Marciano, as late as 1964, was being offered fights. It was well documented prior to Ali fighting for the world title, that a Texas millionaire (oil) offered Marciano $4,000,000 to make a return and fight Ali. Sports Illustrated ran with the story and said famously "40 is not the best age for a white hope", and Marciano declined this as well. Ironically the two men would meet later, under strange circumstances filming "The Super Fight" in 1969 to determine the greatest champion in history; Marciano lost 50 pounds and got in good shape for the filming, Ali didnt take it seriously, and wound up getting beat to the body so much during the production that his arms, ribs, etc were badly bruised and Ali requested time off from filming and asking for additional funds. The stories surrounding the circumstances go even further, where claims that Marciano actually dropped Ali during filming surfaced. Some say it is just a myth, others say it did happen, and others say that Marciano cheap shotted Ali and that is the reason why Ali hit canvas. Still, even at 45 years of age, Marciano made an impression on the next generation, with Ali saying many times since then that Marciano was unbelievably strong, hard to hit with a jab, and couldn't imagine what Marciano was like in his prime. He also went a step further saying Marciano was better than Joe Frazier.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:00 PM   #38
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

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Originally Posted by ripcity View Post
I now expect to see a bunch of "Floyd Ducked Rocky Threads"

Patterson would have won. I can't see Marciano wining the championship after that long of a lay off.

Your probably right!!..although untrue
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:02 PM   #39
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

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I do know that before Marciano retired there was talks of having a Marciano/Patterson exhibition match on network television scheduled for three rounds; but nobody was interested in doing the match unless the title was on the line in an actual match, not an exhibition. At the time Patterson had not yet fought as a heavyweight.

Marciano didn't have that many choices left as it was, Baker and Valdes were both eliminated by the commissions because of their horrible performance against one another. Earl Walls was considered, but he retired instead. A rematch with Moore didn't seem necessary and wouldnt of drawn the money Marciano would have wanted.

He waited a few more months, but nothing ever came, and then he shit canned it all. When Patterson became champion, talks were ongoing, but the truth was Cus D'Amato didn't want Patterson to face Marciano, he had bigger things in mind (dictating the pace of the IBC board). When Johansson upset Patterson, Marciano's interests perked up. It was during the rematch that Marciano said on commentary that he was very interested in fighting the winner; of course Patterson won the rematch, and again D'Amato blocked it. Marciano then signed a contract, that if Johansson defeated Patterson in the rubber match he would use his championship emeritus to fight Johansson in his maiden defense. Marciano began training, found the road to getting in shape to be hard, but continued on anyways; and again Patterson won, and Marciano lost his chance at regaining the title.

When Sonny Liston was champion, rumors surfaced of negotiations for a Liston/Marciano match, but this stemmed from an altercation at Liston's training camp. Marciano was there, and overheard a reporter ask Liston if he could have beaten Marciano in his prime and Liston said yes and went a step further saying he would have beaten him bloody. Marciano then challenged Liston right then and there in the gym to a fight, and Liston declined. That is the extent of that rumor. From that time onwards Marciano criticized Liston as a bully and a coward and said whoever could stand up to him would defeat him, which was proven when Ali defeated Liston.

Marciano, as late as 1964, was being offered fights. It was well documented prior to Ali fighting for the world title, that a Texas millionaire (oil) offered Marciano $4,000,000 to make a return and fight Ali. Sports Illustrated ran with the story and said famously "40 is not the best age for a white hope", and Marciano declined this as well. Ironically the two men would meet later, under strange circumstances filming "The Super Fight" in 1969 to determine the greatest champion in history; Marciano lost 50 pounds and got in good shape for the filming, Ali didnt take it seriously, and wound up getting beat to the body so much during the production that his arms, ribs, etc were badly bruised and Ali requested time off from filming and asking for additional funds. The stories surrounding the circumstances go even further, where claims that Marciano actually dropped Ali during filming surfaced. Some say it is just a myth, others say it did happen, and others say that Marciano cheap shotted Ali and that is the reason why Ali hit canvas. Still, even at 45 years of age, Marciano made an impression on the next generation, with Ali saying many times since then that Marciano was unbelievably strong, hard to hit with a jab, and couldn't imagine what Marciano was like in his prime. He also went a step further saying Marciano was better than Joe Frazier.

See now thats what surprises me!...More people not mentioning Liston!...
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:03 PM   #40
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

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Originally Posted by Bill1234 View Post
I can if he came back at 70% of what he was when he retired. If Patterson chose to bang with Rocky it'd have ended badly for him. His speed would keep him up on the cards (unless he was getting dropped frequently) but Marciano would land a punch in the 1st that would still be felt 5 rounds later.

Like I said earlier, Ingo was more flawed and more hittable than Patterson. What he had going for him was a very powerful right hand that he knew how to land, and he knew how to land it early. Marciano was a slow starter and I can't imagine he'd have started any quicker with the layoff. Ingo would have to get him early or Marciano would get him late.

Well said Bill!
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:08 PM   #41
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

And BTW I would really appreciate if the powers that be would stop shorting my thread questions and rewording them..This is not how I typed it or how I posted it...This was a good thread till your ****in nit pickin ass had to touch it..If you dont like it kick me me off mother****er this isnt the only Boxing forum online and im sorry to say for sure not the best anymore.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:33 PM   #42
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

Any articles to verify this rumor of Rocky challenging Liston in the gym?

Further, I can't believe so many people are picking Patterson.. even in 59.. to beat Rocky.. Have you guys SEEN the punchers that put floyd down? One... just one shot from Rocky is all he'll need to either put Floyd away or have him on queer street and finish him.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:48 PM   #43
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

Marciano may not have been considered to be an intellectual type like Gene Tunney, but both have in common the wisdom and uncommon common sense to leave the sport behind while at the top and never return again. There's a special elite of boxing greats who knew when to call it a day..and they're two great examples.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:08 PM   #44
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

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Marciano may not have been considered to be an intellectual type like Gene Tunney, but both have in common the wisdom and uncommon common sense to leave the sport behind while at the top and never return again. There's a special elite of boxing greats who knew when to call it a day..and they're two great examples.
I agree!...You can say Rocky would have beaten Floyd and in the same sentence say Im glad The Rock didnt come back.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:21 PM   #45
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

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Originally Posted by KuRuPT View Post
Any articles to verify this rumor of Rocky challenging Liston in the gym?

Further, I can't believe so many people are picking Patterson.. even in 59.. to beat Rocky.. Have you guys SEEN the punchers that put floyd down? One... just one shot from Rocky is all he'll need to either put Floyd away or have him on queer street and finish him.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

^^^That's one source, from Lou Duva though he is often times biased in his appreciation of Marciano; will try and find other sources.
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