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Old 01-29-2016, 04:56 PM   #1
foreman&dempsey
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Default green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

It would have been interesting. I have my own point of view.but i want to know yours guys.how do you see it
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:30 AM   #2
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

I honestly think Sadler would NOT have let George fight that version of Frazier. No way!

Why didn't George have to fight Bonavena, Quarry, Patterson, Ellis, Mac Foster, Joe Bugner like Ali did to get Frazier fights? Sadler knew his kid was not ready that's why.

George fighting Frazier when they did was a calculated risk that paid off. Ali proved how much greener George must have really been back then. Sadler knew what he was doing in keeping George away from good fighters until George got that title shot. He did not want anyone exposing George before he could first get to Frazier. George was extremely fortune he did not have to fight Ali in a final eliminator in 1972 because Ali was much more worthy of a rematch with Frazier in place of George. Sadler knew George was not ready for Ali.

Sadler saw how Joe had changed. Frazier was having to walk all the way up before punching against Ron Stander. Where as Before Frazier could time a guy with a 82" reach on the way in. Joe was now feeling his way in without punching. He was not throwing anything until he was inside. This was new. and Sadler knew this would be suicide against his fighter. Nothing would hit George until he let Frazier walk up to him. So he knew George could blast him with out taking a punch. He even had the back up plan that if Frazuer did get close enough to punch George would know to push Frazier into a distance he could not reach George!

If Frazier had what he had in the Ali fight in 71' Sadler would have decided his kid was not yet ready. He already knew George was not yet ready anyway but he he knew it was a gift to fight Frazier at that time because he had a boy who could knock a man out at long range and the champion was a guy who could (now)only fight at close range. Sadler had spotted something that everybody missed at that time. This is why Frazier was such a favorite against George.

Because of Foreman v Frazier there has become a ludicrous "one size fits all" established opinion that boxers of Foreman v Frazier stature always record the exact same outcome. A style advantage set in stone.

Truth is, Frazier had become handicapped against that type of opponent. he did not used to be. It suited that situation.

Last edited by choklab; 01-30-2016 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 01-30-2016, 03:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

Foreman ko 3. George was just to strong and powerful for any Frazier. Fraziers style was to manhandle and he just would never do so with Foreman.
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Old 01-30-2016, 04:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

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Foreman ko 3. George was just to strong and powerful for any Frazier. Fraziers style was to manhandle and he just would never do so with Foreman.
Have you seen Foreman vs Ted Gullick?

A prime Frazier (who hit Ali at long range every round) would have made better oppertunties with the openings Gullick got in the first round versus George.
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Old 01-30-2016, 04:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

George is just to strong for Frazier. Joe started slow while George started quick. In every way just bad news here for Joe.
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Old 01-30-2016, 04:12 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Perry View Post
Foreman ko 3. George was just to strong and powerful for any Frazier. Fraziers style was to manhandle and he just would never do so with Foreman.
Honestly i agree.. Foreman was the antidote for joe.i can see other fighters troubling this green 1970 foreman more than frazier would. Like bonavena, quarry,ali
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Old 01-30-2016, 04:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

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Originally Posted by Perry View Post
George is just to strong for Frazier. Joe started slow while George started quick. In every way just bad news here for Joe.
Take a look at the Ted Gullick fight. It's on YouTube.
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Old 01-30-2016, 04:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

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Honestly i agree.. Foreman was the antidote for joe.i can see other fighters troubling this green 1970 foreman more than frazier would. Like bonavena, quarry,ali
Foreman was the antidote for the 1973 Joe Frazier. Absolutely.

But please consider the extra range Joe used to have. Measure that with the openings Ted Gullick exploited with inferior power.

Frazier vs Foreman is a different fight with those considerations in place I think.

This is what the public considered at the time and why Frazier was the favourite to win. Frazier was judged on what he did in the Ali fight. But he was not that man anymore. If he had of been the same man the experts might have been onto something.
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

Yeah. Of course that 1970 frazier was more in shape and he was more mobile,he was busier, but in the end of the day frazier always just knew a single way to fight, and this way was perfect for george
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Old 01-30-2016, 07:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

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Originally Posted by foreman&dempsey View Post
It would have been interesting. I have my own point of view.but i want to know yours guys.how do you see it

Frazier would definitely win in this scenario. Foreman's physical attributes which would be a major problem for Joe later on had n't been fully developed after only one year as a pro.
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Old 01-30-2016, 12:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Frazier would definitely win in this scenario. Foreman's physical attributes which would be a major problem for Joe later on had n't been fully developed after only one year as a pro.
And Joe's physical attributes hadn't deteriorated either. After he had been in the FOTC, Joe was on a different career trajectory to George. Foreman was developing the strength to complement his straight up style, without which he would have really struggled with Joe. Joe was losing the energy that powered his relentless swarming style. And health was starting to become an issue as well.

But back in 70, things are very different. Joe all day, every day. And no shame in that for a 21 year old George with less than two years pro experience who was still way off his prime.

It would have been like putting Clay in with Liston in '61 or '62 while Cassius was still developing and Sonny's physical decline was still to show its effect. Fast forward to '64 though...
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

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Originally Posted by choklab View Post
I honestly think Sadler would NOT have let George fight that version of Frazier. No way!

Why didn't George have to fight Bonavena, Quarry, Patterson, Ellis, Mac Foster, Joe Bugner like Ali did to get Frazier fights? Sadler knew his kid was not ready that's why.

George fighting Frazier when they did was a calculated risk that paid off. Ali proved how much greener George must have really been back then. Sadler knew what he was doing in keeping George away from good fighters until George got that title shot. He did not want anyone exposing George before he could first get to Frazier. George was extremely fortune he did not have to fight Ali in a final eliminator in 1972 because Ali was much more worthy of a rematch with Frazier in place of George. Sadler knew George was not ready for Ali.

Sadler saw how Joe had changed. Frazier was having to walk all the way up before punching against Ron Stander. Where as Before Frazier could time a guy with a 82" reach on the way in. Joe was now feeling his way in without punching. He was not throwing anything until he was inside. This was new. and Sadler knew this would be suicide against his fighter. Nothing would hit George until he let Frazier walk up to him. So he knew George could blast him with out taking a punch. He even had the back up plan that if Frazuer did get close enough to punch George would know to push Frazier into a distance he could not reach George!

If Frazier had what he had in the Ali fight in 71' Sadler would have decided his kid was not yet ready. He already knew George was not yet ready anyway but he he knew it was a gift to fight Frazier at that time because he had a boy who could knock a man out at long range and the champion was a guy who could (now)only fight at close range. Sadler had spotted something that everybody missed at that time. This is why Frazier was such a favorite against George.

Because of Foreman v Frazier there has become a ludicrous "one size fits all" established opinion that boxers of Foreman v Frazier stature always record the exact same outcome. A style advantage set in stone.

Truth is, Frazier had become handicapped against that type of opponent. he did not used to be. It suited that situation.
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:12 PM   #13
clark
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

Here's a thread I started in 2007: [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:20 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by clark View Post
Here's a thread I started in 2007:
The opinion of round15 picking frazier 71 over prime foreman is just laughable
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Old 01-30-2016, 06:24 PM   #15
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Default Re: green george foreman 1970 vs Joe frazier 1970

I am going to go with Frazier her.

You have to be built up technically, physically, and mentally, to have a chance against a fighter like Frazier.
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