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Old 02-18-2013, 10:45 AM   #76
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by Rico Spadafora View Post
What's funny?

Why don't you list all of the guys that's successfully gone from 160-175 up to heavy and beat a legit top ten ranked guy.

Your list isn't going to be very long.

How come Roy was the first guy in 106 years to achieve it. Please explain.

Who out of the current crop of 168/175 fighters do you think could go up?
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Old 02-18-2013, 10:57 AM   #77
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

True_Hero,

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Collins would have beaten Roy, not easily but he'd have done him. Roy just flat out refused to face him knowing that fact. Imagine how it would have looked, the big American star getting battered by a virtually unknown (in the states) Irishman.
Ha! Give us a technical breakdown then.

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That's why Roy ducked him. Incidently he also ducked a at the time unknown Joe Calzaghe and he ducked Nigel Benn.
Benn was a King fighter. For 90% of Roy's career, Joe fought in a different weight class, and was relatively unknown until he'd beaten Lacy in 2006.

You've just said yourself that he was unknown. He was an unknown WBO belt holder, while Roy was at 175. The fight was never viable. When Roy was prime, nobody was bothered about Joe.

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Jones Jr was good, don't get me wrong. But he had a habit of ducking European boxers who he felt could hurt him. I don't know whether it was because of cowardice or a management decision that they didn't want to see their big American boxer get defeated by a European or what.
I'm assuming you're trolling, because nobody could be this dumb.

List the European boxers he ducked, and show me some evidence.


Quote:
Fact is, Jones Jr ducked 3 opponents. Calzaghe, Collins and Benn. Now, I don't think Benn would have defeated him but Collins definitely would and Calzaghe it would have been close but Joe could have done him.
In 1999, Joe said "I'm not chasing Roy Jones. Be honest Roy Jones is a good fighter and I don't want tough fights, I just want to be well paid."

In 2002, he said "I think I could give Roy Jones a hell of a fight, but I know what my capabilities are, and I'd want the crown jewels to fight him."

We know that nobody was willing to give him the huge money that he wanted to fight Roy, because again, outside of Europe he was relatively unknown.

He could have moved up to 175 and fought in America a lot sooner than he did, but he chose not to do so.

If you take into consideration what Joe said, and look at who he fought and when, it's crystal clear that he didn't really want to face him. It's also obvious to me, that he didn't think he was good enough to beat him.

Any fighter that struggles with Kessler, Bika and Reid, is simply not good enough to beat Roy at his best. It's as simple as that.

Joe turned pro in 1993. He retired 15 years later in 2008.

It was only in his 15th and final year as a pro, that he fought in Roy's Country and at his weight class. That was not a coincidence.


With regards to Collins, again tell me how you think Collins could have beaten him?

His claim to fame was beating faded versions of Eubank and Benn.

The man was a warrior, and he was hard, but technically he wasn't great. How the hell could he have coped with Roy's speed?

I don't think there's any way that those two could have beaten Roy at his best.

But I've got a lot more respect for Collins, than what I have for Joe.

Last edited by Loudon; 02-18-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:10 PM   #78
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

Class dismissed
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:19 PM   #79
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by El Lucho View Post
what you talking about era!?

all time nobody is on the level of prime jones when talking about the combination of skills, reflexes, speed, athletiscm. not even robinson or leonard.
I agree and realized that just as I posted the thread that it should have said "ever". Nobody could do what Roy did in the ring and do not think we will see that again in our lifetime, sadly.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:20 PM   #80
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by True_Hero View Post
Collins would have beaten Roy, not easily but he'd have done him. Roy just flat out refused to face him knowing that fact. Imagine how it would have looked, the big American star getting battered by a virtually unknown (in the states) Irishman.

That's why Roy ducked him. Incidently he also ducked a at the time unknown Joe Calzaghe and he ducked Nigel Benn.

Jones Jr was good, don't get me wrong. But he had a habit of ducking European boxers who he felt could hurt him. I don't know whether it was because of cowardice or a management decision that they didn't want to see their big American boxer get defeated by a European or what.

Fact is, Jones Jr ducked 3 opponents. Calzaghe, Collins and Benn. Now, I don't think Benn would have defeated him but Collins definitely would and Calzaghe it would have been close but Joe could have done him.

You are insane.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:21 PM   #81
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

mark for later
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:35 PM   #82
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by larryx2012 View Post
wrong Roy had 0 fundalmentals and relied only on reflexes and speed and had 0 to back it up..fighters like Hopkins have fundalmentals and can fight in
This.

Which is why he will never be as good as either of the Sugar Ray's or Mayweather. These guys, could / can be aggressive, or defensive due to their sound technical grounding. RJJ, like Pacman, simply can't.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:40 PM   #83
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

So overrated.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:44 PM   #84
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by Foxy 01 View Post
This.

Which is why he will never be as good as either of the Sugar Ray's or Mayweather. These guys, could / can be aggressive, or defensive due to their sound technical grounding. RJJ, like Pacman, simply can't.
Nonsense! It's not as cut and dried as that.

He relied on his athletiscism a hell of a lot, but he still had fundamentals and skills.

His feints, footwork, shot selection, timing etc are all skills.

You've more than exaggerated your point.

You couldn't give Michael Johnson and Usain Bolt a pair of boxing gloves and expect them to do anything.

Floyd is a supreme athlete, but he couldn't throw combinations like Roy could, even when close to his opponent.
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Old 02-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #85
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by floyd_g.o.a.t View Post
So overrated.
Look at your username.

Oh the irony! Ha!
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:59 PM   #86
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by CASH_718 View Post
More like least skilled.

There's a reason that the minute he lost some of his reflexes and speed he turned to dog shit.
agree with this except the last couple of words.

rjj is skilled as you must be to achieve what he has. but the man was more about athletism than skill. thats why he is getting knocked out left right whereas guys from the same era (james toney and bernard hopkins) are now having to rely on purely skill thus why they are either winning or the very least finishing the fight standing.

jones jr's skill level never was anywhere near toney's or b-hops but he was far more athletic than the two
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:04 PM   #87
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

Roy Jones is more comparable to Pacquiao than Mayweather in my opinion
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:28 PM   #88
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Roy Jones is more comparable to Pacquiao than Mayweather in my opinion
I was going to say exactly that.
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:52 PM   #89
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
His skillset was most definitely not average.

A one-fight warning isn't enough. Take any fighter's athletic attributes and dramatically reduce them over the course of two fights, they're not going to have time to adjust from how they've fought their whole career.
no its not average, sorry that was unfair but most skilled ever is just as far out, once a fraction of his athletic ability was taken away he struggled immensly. He was still physically very gifted when he was getting stopped by Tarver and Johnson. His skillset was very refined for what he had to do, if i wanted to be unfair i could describe it as one dimensional. It was better than that but he certainly lacked the skillset to adjust once he did slow a fraction, that much we plainly saw with our own eyes.
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:05 PM   #90
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by Big N Bad View Post
agree with this except the last couple of words.

rjj is skilled as you must be to achieve what he has. but the man was more about athletism than skill. thats why he is getting knocked out left right whereas guys from the same era (james toney and bernard hopkins) are now having to rely on purely skill thus why they are either winning or the very least finishing the fight standing.

jones jr's skill level never was anywhere near toney's or b-hops but he was far more athletic than the two
can an unskilled fighter do what Roy Jones was doing? What do you think it takes to land leaping left hooks with uncanny accuracy?

(Know anyone else who lands Roy's leaping left hook? I know one: Mayweather. But it's a poor man's version.)

It's skill. Unbelievable, unprecedented, otherworldly skill. There's no better word for it.

Could he have developed this skill without the athletic ability to go with it? Nope. The two things are inseparable.
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