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Old 02-19-2013, 12:55 PM   #121
turbotime
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
I'm 100% Irish and even I don't humor the chance of Collins beating a prime Roy.
Which is why you Big O are one of the premiere posters on this site.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:29 PM   #122
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
I'm 100% Irish and even I don't humor the chance of Collins beating a prime Roy.
Im in the same boat.

I remember being brought to the local pub as a kid to watch Collins fights Eubank and Benn, because we didnt have sky at home.

Collins was my hero and as a kid I wanted nothing more than to see him fight Jones.

Now I look back,and still see Collins as a quality fighters and a complete warrior, but still think he would have been taken apart by Jones.

He'd have fought heroically, but in the end he would have been outclassed.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:13 PM   #123
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
i dont know what you're smoking but i'll take some...

which part of britain do you live in?

This guy thinks Ali would be the 3rd best HW at best in the 90's era, and would barely be 3rd best today and just a name on the Klit's resume.. He even said Ali was a lot of media hype.

He knows shit, don't waste your time.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:02 PM   #124
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by irishny View Post
Im in the same boat.

I remember being brought to the local pub as a kid to watch Collins fights Eubank and Benn, because we didnt have sky at home.

Collins was my hero and as a kid I wanted nothing more than to see him fight Jones.

Now I look back,and still see Collins as a quality fighters and a complete warrior, but still think he would have been taken apart by Jones.

He'd have fought heroically, but in the end he would have been outclassed.
I don't think there's anyway he could have coped with Roy's speed. You've got to give him credit and respect him though. He wanted that fight bad.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:19 PM   #125
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
What is this bullshit? what the **** does the WBO have to do with legitimate criticisms of Jones?
Because there's always some Britfag claiming Jones "ducked" some local stay-home WBO hero who nobody outside of the UK gave a shit about or even regarded as a beltholder. Eubank, Collins, Calzaghe for 99% of his career, etcetera.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:43 AM   #126
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
I understand where you're coming from, but the point is this, you're writing off his career and his great wins, but without having any actual evidence.


It's all if's, but's and maybe's.

We don't know what he took, when, and if he did at all.


You said he looked great beating cab drivers.

I then mentioned that he also beat very good-great fighters and looked great in doing so.

Your response was, it was the drugs. But you've just admitted that you don't know any details.


You also said his career means nothing. How does his career mean nothing, when again nobody knows exactly what happened?

They're very bold statements to make when you don't have any facts.


After Hall, he was randomly tested on 2-3 occasions, and he passed.

A lot of people's response to that is, "Well, he wouldn't have been stupid enough to take them after Hall." That is a common phrase that gets thrown about.

But after Hall, he went on to beat Harding, Gonzalez, Woods, Tarver and Ruiz at heavyweight.

So if you agree with the above statement, he didn't need anything to beat those guys.


Also, he used Mackie Shilstone, a well respected sports strategist and psychologist to help gain weight for Ruiz. Mackie has helped lots of football players, and boxers such as Michael Spinks and Bernard Hopkins to gain weight. If ever there was a time to use roids, it would have been then. His reflexes, footwork and handspeed looked great against Ruiz, even with the additional weight. He weighed 200 pounds. I don't believe that Mackie would never have risked his reputaion of 30 years, to get involved in anything untoward.


Also, between the period of 2000-2003 he tried to negotiate for fights against Dariusz M, Bernard Hopkins, and Mike Tyson. Again, he could have been tested at any point. If he'd have needed roids that bad, and they'd have had made such a big difference to him, then why would he have chased those fights after Hall?


Once again, steroids would not have made any difference to his actual skillset, otherwise every fighter in the world would be roiding.


Roy's skills were honed from the age of 7, with his Dad.
But Roy has been caught, and he is a drugs cheat. Roy's record is full of cab drivers obviously i was being sarcastic and didn't literally mean all he ever faced were bums!

Of course moving up to face Ruiz was a great achievement for him and he did have some top drawer performances. He is a HOF fighter for sure. My point now is the same as my first post, Roy is a proven drugs cheat.
We don't know when he started and we cant gauge how long he used for, but we know for certain that he has used steroids. This for me taints his reputation within the sport.
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:54 AM   #127
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by dannyboy147 View Post
But Roy has been caught, and he is a drugs cheat. Roy's record is full of cab drivers obviously i was being sarcastic and didn't literally mean all he ever faced were bums!

Of course moving up to face Ruiz was a great achievement for him and he did have some top drawer performances. He is a HOF fighter for sure. My point now is the same as my first post, Roy is a proven drugs cheat.
We don't know when he started and we cant gauge how long he used for, but we know for certain that he has used steroids. This for me taints his reputation within the sport.
Fair enough mate, I repect your opinion.

We'll leave it there.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:18 AM   #128
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by irishny View Post
In terms of what he could do with his fists..and basically his body,he was.

Griffin sparred with Floyd and said RJJ was much faster, and he was 30lbs heavier!

In terms of raw,freak ability, very few people in history can match RJJ.

Those 4 hooks, that 1-2.

He could do things in the ring,that literally no one else in history could do.
There are (in general) three types of "Great Fighters" that captivate fans.

1. Physically gifted athletes who are flashy but disregard technical style and fundamentals, like stance, keeping hands up, etc...because their physical gifts let them get away with it. Think Roy Jones Jr., Naseem Hamed, Ali...

2. Technical Wizards who dominate and survive in the sport much longer.... Think Hopkins, Wlad, JMM..

3. Warriors who battle until they can't move. Think Gatti, Vitali, Holyfield, Hatton, Cotto...

Some guys are a combination... Tyson had the first two, but no determination. Floyd has the first two but won't take dangerous opponents. ODLH had all three but lost some of them to age.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:27 AM   #129
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
There are (in general) three types of "Great Fighters" that captivate fans.

1. Physically gifted athletes who are flashy but disregard technical style and fundamentals, like stance, keeping hands up, etc...because their physical gifts let them get away with it. Think Roy Jones Jr., Naseem Hamed, Ali...

2. Technical Wizards who dominate and survive in the sport much longer.... Think Hopkins, Wlad, JMM..

3. Warriors who battle until they can't move. Think Gatti, Vitali, Holyfield, Hatton, Cotto...

Some guys are a combination... Tyson had the first two, but no determination. Floyd has the first two but won't take dangerous opponents. ODLH had all three but lost some of them to age.
Good post!
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:40 AM   #130
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by True_Hero View Post
Why are all the butthurt Roid Jones Jr fanboys so reluctant to admit their hero was a coward and a drugs cheat?

Benn = Ducked
Eubank = Didn't duck him but Roid admitted he didn't want to fight him
Collins = Ducked
Calzaghe = Ducked
Michalczewski = Ducked
Frankie Liles = Ducked
Hopkins in 2002 = Ducked

He was a coward, admit it.
Nice one failey.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:06 PM   #131
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by True_Hero View Post
Why are all the butthurt Roid Jones Jr fanboys so reluctant to admit their hero was a coward and a drugs cheat?

Benn = Ducked
Eubank = Didn't duck him but Roid admitted he didn't want to fight him
Collins = Ducked
Calzaghe = Ducked
Michalczewski = Ducked
Frankie Liles = Ducked
Hopkins in 2002 = Ducked

He was a coward, admit it.
How did he duck hopkins??? He told him "60 - 40, you get your ass whopped" Hops wanted 50-50 and didn't deserve it for many reasons. Besides, Roy already beat him!
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:25 PM   #132
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by dannyboy147 View Post
Thats the point, nobody can prove when he started using steroids. For all we know he could have been using them as an amateur we just cant tell. At the end of the day he is never going to admit this just like Mosley/Vargas/Vitali/Toney/Holyfield/Mayorga they will all just say it was a one off or they never knew what was happening, they just drank the shakes!!

You need to ask yourself why would an established elite professional start using drugs mid career? They wouldn't as they wouldn't need to, they are already at the top. Therefore you have to presume they use it to get to the top or their skill set declined so they used to stay at the top.

My point isn't that Jones was shit because that would simply be ludicrous, he still possessed an amazing skill set. But we just don't know if his speed/timing/stamina/athleticism would have been the same without the drugs. They must have made an impact or else he wouldn't have taken them.

Its not an American v British posters arguement. Prime v Prime i would back Jones to beat everyone at 160-175lbs in his era. My point is without the drugs we just don't know.

Eubank/Benn/Collins/Calzaghe were all clean fighters....as far as we know!!!
So you think Calzaghe and Hatton snorted cocain only after their career?
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:58 PM   #133
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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So you think Calzaghe and Hatton snorted cocain only after their career?
Calzaghe seemed to know his dope pretty well actually.
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Old 02-23-2013, 03:16 PM   #134
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Default Re: Watching this made me realize (Roy Jones jr.)

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Originally Posted by Flexb View Post
Just watching this made me realize Floyd is just a kid with skills compared to this wizard, just look at that shit. Nobody in this era could even come close to this. Oh, how we forget.
A wizard on PED's. Indeed.
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