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Old 02-18-2013, 05:56 AM   #31
Vysotsky
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Default Re: The Strongest Middleweigt Era and Reevaluating Boxing Dogma

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No it's Risko but Steele fought him twice and McAvoy destroyed him as well as beat 4 other Americans including the Top L-HW cum HW contender Al McCoy who fought Loe Louis and Mac too competed with honour over the full 15 with the great JHL. these are great wins and fights to say nothing of his overall career.
Steele beat Risko 3 times actually, 1st in a non title bout when Risko was Champ, 2nd to win the title, 3rd in title rematch.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:06 AM   #32
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Default Re: The Strongest Middleweigt Era and Reevaluating Boxing Dogma

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I do factor in the quality and context of the wins when rating them and Steele and Yarosz's few losses do not diminish their achievements at all. Actually when comparing them to other ATG MW's it actually gives them an edge against some other ATG's.

I have done a in depth comparison with all of these factors for Steele vs Hopkins and when looking at them against eachother the disparity is actually quite shocking. I'll make a thread for it soon.



Resume vs achievements i'm not too sure what you mean by that and again if achievement essentialy means number of title defenses that can be an extremely meaningless thing at times. I would appreciate if you take a look at the Steele vs Hopkins comparison thread i will post soon and apply it to them after looking over all my information.
Achievement can mean a plethora of things. for instance louis achieved a level of dominance never seen before or since. Ali achieved 3 times champion status before anyone else. Lewis achieved the feat of beating everyone he fought. Jones Jr achieved a status as one of the most gifted boxers in history. Wills achieved one of the longest runs of top contender in history. Armstrong achieved the incredible feat of being the best fw, lw and ww AT THE SAME TIME! Hopkins achieved full unification when there was an incredible 5 belts knocking about. Leonard achieved the greatest comeback in boxing history. Rocky achieved an undefeated career. Burley achieved the status of most avoided boxer in history. Tyson achieved status as the youngest champ in hw history. Benitez achieved status as youngest champ period.

The achievements is where my personal taste comes into. Resume is a very black and white concept that's logic based and objective, by and large there isn't a huge degree os disagreements on the strength of a resume. Achievements is what makes my list mine. It's what reflects my personal opinion on the sport and gives my rankings flavour.

Here's my MW list as of now:

Marvin Hagler
Carlos Monzon
Ray Robinson
Stan Ketchel
Harry Greb
Charley Burley
Fred Apostoli
Holman Williams
Bernard Hopkins
Dick Tiger
Jake La Motta
Bob Fitzsimmons
Mike Gibbons
Les Darcy
Tiger Flowers
Freddie Steele
Gene Fullmer
Bobo Olson
Nino Benvenuti
Micky Walker
Sumbu Kalambay
Emile Griffith
Tony Zale
Marcel Thil
Jack N.P. Dempsey
Billy Papke
Tommy Ryan
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:56 AM   #33
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Default Re: The Strongest Middleweigt Era and Reevaluating Boxing Dogma

It's nice to see Les Darcy being mentioned great human being,tragic story.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:19 AM   #34
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Default Re: The Strongest Middleweigt Era and Reevaluating Boxing Dogma

Great post

Burley v Charles must've been something.
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:25 AM   #35
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Default Re: The Strongest Middleweigt Era and Reevaluating Boxing Dogma

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Achievement can mean a plethora of things. for instance louis achieved a level of dominance never seen before or since. Ali achieved 3 times champion status before anyone else. Lewis achieved the feat of beating everyone he fought. Jones Jr achieved a status as one of the most gifted boxers in history. Wills achieved one of the longest runs of top contender in history. Armstrong achieved the incredible feat of being the best fw, lw and ww AT THE SAME TIME! Hopkins achieved full unification when there was an incredible 5 belts knocking about. Leonard achieved the greatest comeback in boxing history. Rocky achieved an undefeated career. Burley achieved the status of most avoided boxer in history. Tyson achieved status as the youngest champ in hw history. Benitez achieved status as youngest champ period.

The achievements is where my personal taste comes into. Resume is a very black and white concept that's logic based and objective, by and large there isn't a huge degree os disagreements on the strength of a resume. Achievements is what makes my list mine. It's what reflects my personal opinion on the sport and gives my rankings flavour.
Yeah so achievement for you means what i thought and while those things are interesting and sometimes significant the majority of examples you provided would hold little value, some almost none, in where i actually rank them. Especially the subjective ones lke your RJJ or Burley examples. Resume and achievement holding equal significance seems far from the most accurate and objective way to go about ranking them imo.

Thanks for sharing your MW list i have 7 of the same top 10 guys but in pretty different order.

Last edited by Vysotsky; 02-18-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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