Most dangerous fighter in each weight class from the neck up.

[janitor]

Pick the fighter with the most formidable tactical mind in each weight class. The most dangerous from the neck up.

To kick things off-

Heavy-Jack Johnson
Light Heavy-Archie Moore
Middle-Charley Burley
Welter-Fritzie Zivic
Lightweight-Benny Leonard
Feather-Young Griffo
Bantem-George Dixon

[C. M. Clay II]

HW - Ali

LHW - Moore

MW - Monzon

WW - Leonard

LW - Gans

FW - Pep

[MrSmall]

What do you mean, from the neck up?

[C. M. Clay II]

Originally Posted by MrSmall

What do you mean, from the neck up?

The smartest.

[Dempsey1238]

I put Tunney over Moore for lightheayvweights. Moore was tricky, but he was no were near Tunney in that regard imo.

[Rattler]

HW - Jack Johnson
LHW - Gene Tunney
SMW - Roy Jones Jr.
MW - Bernard Hopkins
jMW - Winky Wright
WW - Pernell Whitaker
jWW - Antonio Cervantes
LW - Roberto Duran
jLW - Alexis Arguello
FW - Willie Pep
jFW - Daniel Zaragoza
BW - Carlos Zarate
jBW - ?
FlyW - ?
jFlyW - Ricardo Lopez
SW - ?

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Dempsey1238

I put Tunney over Moore for lightheayvweights. Moore was tricky, but he was no were near Tunney in that regard imo.

Tommy Loughran deserves a mention also.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by MrSmall

What do you mean, from the neck up?

Think of a fighter whose brain made them more dangerous than their talent alone.

[McGrain]

I think Hollyfield deserves a mention. I was most impressed with the way he fought Lewis, the way he took advantage of his reluctance to get heavily involved, the way he slowed the fight down to the maximum degree. I have Lewis winning both fights, and I thought he spoiled a bit, but I was most impressed.

De La Hoya fought the only fight he could have against Mayweather to get himself a win. I thought that was ring general ship at its very best.

Max Schmeling?

But far and away the p4p no.1 in would be Archie Moore.



As an aside, can anyone think of a fighter who lets himself down in this department?

[Dempsey1238]

Originally Posted by janitor

Tommy Loughran deserves a mention also.

A bunch of guys from the lightheavyweights should get a mention, Loughran, Conn, Delaney, Tunney, Charles, Jack O Brien, Rosenbloom, and a few others imo.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by McGrain

I think Hollyfield deserves a mention. I was most impressed with the way he fought Lewis, the way he took advantage of his reluctance to get heavily involved, the way he slowed the fight down to the maximum degree. I have Lewis winning both fights, and I thought he spoiled a bit, but I was most impressed.

De La Hoya fought the only fight he could have against Mayweather to get himself a win. I thought that was ring general ship at its very best.

Max Schmeling?

But far and away the p4p no.1 in would be Archie Moore.

Some sound choices.

[Rattler]

Originally Posted by McGrain

De La Hoya fought the only fight he could have against Mayweather to get himself a win. I thought that was ring general ship at its very best.

A really intelligent fighter wouldn't disregard their most successful punch, and that's exactly what Oscar did when he stopped jabbing. That was the only time he had any real success against Floyd.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Rattler

A really intelligent fighter wouldn't disregard their most successful punch, and that's exactly what Oscar did when he stopped jabbing. That was the only time he had any real success against Floyd.

Everybody said this from the general forum posters to the guys in the studio that evening - but it wasn't my impression. I thought De La Hoya abandoned his jab - and he did use it in the first few rounds - because he was being countered of his jab. I also felt he was wrong footing Oscar and getting round the corner on him a little bit, though nothing dramatic happened.

What is your theory about why Oscar abandoned his jab?

Anyway, I don't agree. I think the adjustment he made was correct, but not the cornerstone of my point which is that Oscar made a fight - which I saw as almost impossible for him to win - very, very difficult to score, without relying upon workrate which would have been disastrous for a fighter his age.

[Pat_Lowe]

Originally Posted by Homicidal Hank

At heavyweight, it's Ali hands down. They way he studied and then exploited a fighter's strengths and weakness. He was a genius. Michael Spinks at light heavyweight for me. He was a brilliant strategist. He was brilliant at heavyweight, as well. His wins over Holmes and Cooney showed real smarts. By the Tyson fight, his mobility was gone and he was intimidated. Roy Jones Jr. at middleweight was freaky smart. He was, of course, freaky smart all the way up through heavyweight, as well. Ray Robinson takes it at welterweight. He also had it often at middleweight, for example his strategy against LaMotta. At lightweight, I think Whitaker takes it, and he carried it up through welterweight. Willie Pep was the genius at featherweight, without question. I haven't considered the lighter weights.

I agree with you on pretty much all counts there. I also think alot of Michael Spinks' tactics and smarts can be attributed to Eddie Futch.

[SuzieQ49]

I put Tunney over Moore for lightheayvweights. Moore was tricky, but he was no were near Tunney in that regard imo.
__________________

i think moore was far more cagey and smart than gene tunney, moore knew how to adapt his style at all different measures to fight his opponent much better than tunney did. tunney simply fought with the same style every time and usually faced much smaller or older opponents