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Old 07-10-2007, 02:49 AM   #31
jyuza
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Good luck pal !

And don't forget the main thing that matters in fighting. ENJOY IT !!!
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Old 07-10-2007, 10:27 AM   #32
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Well, Not happy bout the result. Firstly my opponent didn't show, so that ****ed things up. Which means I go into the next round of the tournament (which is the final cause there were only 3 people in my division). So instead the matchmaker organised an exhibition cause alot of people came out to watch me. The only opponent they could find was at least a division up from me, they said he was 67kgs but he didn't weigh in so I have no idea. The fight started badly, I was a bit tentative at first but wasn't to bad but the moment I got hit with anything the ref put an eight count on me despite not being hurt or stunned or anything, in the 2nd round I started to get back into it I landed some good right hands and combos and then the moment he came at me it was stopped. Naturally I complained lol, he said we were going too hard. Utter bullshit, its boxing we weren't in there to hold hands even if it was an exhibition.

The good news is, it doesn't go on my record, and I might be fighting again this weekend so I can make my proper debut.

It was funny though afterwards in the next couple of bouts with that same ref, people in the crowd were yelling out "stop it ref stop it" anytime someone got hit at all. Reminds me of Richard Steele and the shit he copped.

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Old 07-10-2007, 01:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Pat_Lowe
Well, Not happy bout the result. Firstly my opponent didn't show, so that ****ed things up. Which means I go into the next round of the tournament (which is the final cause there were only 3 people in my division). So instead the matchmaker organised an exhibition cause alot of people came out to watch me. The only opponent they could find was at least a division up from me, they said he was 67kgs but he didn't weigh in so I have no idea. The fight started badly, I was a bit tentative at first but wasn't to bad but the moment I got hit with anything the ref put an eight count on me despite not being hurt or stunned or anything, in the 2nd round I started to get back into it I landed some good right hands and combos and then the moment he came at me it was stopped. Naturally I complained lol, he said we were going too hard. Utter bullshit, its boxing we weren't in there to hold hands even if it was an exhibition.

The good news is, it doesn't go on my record, and I might be fighting again this weekend so I can make my proper debut.

It was funny though afterwards in the next couple of bouts with that same ref, people in the crowd were yelling out "stop it ref stop it" anytime someone got hit at all. Reminds me of Richard Steele and the shit he copped.
Pehaps this is more of an advantageous situation you've found yourself in. You've gotten your feet wet performing in front of a crowd, and you've experienced the adversarial crap which so many boxers get victimized by. You already have your debut performance under your belt, regardless of whether or not it was "official." That it was not "official" is simply icing on the cake.

Referees are simply too reactionary today. If you even present the appearance of distress, you wind up on the receiving end of an eight count.

Maybe you've learned not to start so tentatively when you officially debut. (A feeling out process can be a risky proposition in brief amateur competition, when it comes to scoring a round. Might you be better off trying to nail your first opponent immediately, to catch him off-guard? You know your situation well enough to decide what could be worth attempting.)

In any event, I believe congratulations are still in order. You have made your public performance debut, and have broken the ice!
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:31 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Duodenum
Pehaps this is more of an advantageous situation you've found yourself in. You've gotten your feet wet performing in front of a crowd, and you've experienced the adversarial crap which so many boxers get victimized by. You already have your debut performance under your belt, regardless of whether or not it was "official." That it was not "official" is simply icing on the cake.

Referees are simply too reactionary today. If you even present the appearance of distress, you wind up on the receiving end of an eight count.

Maybe you've learned not to start so tentatively when you officially debut. (A feeling out process can be a risky proposition in brief amateur competition, when it comes to scoring a round. Might you be better off trying to nail your first opponent immediately, to catch him off-guard? You know your situation well enough to decide what could be worth attempting.)

In any event, I believe congratulations are still in order. You have made your public performance debut, and have broken the ice!
Thanks very much.

You're always mentioning how the sport of boxing is going downhill etc. Do you think that the way boxing is officiated could have anything to do with it. I think it might at the Australian level. The referees are way to quick to jump in at both amatuer and professional level. I went to a pro boxing card about a month ago and the fights that were stopped were stopped before a fighter was even knocked down. In fact only one fighter was knocked down but it was stopped right as he went down. Its pretty ridiculous. Fighters are in there to fight...thats the sport of boxing, they need a chance to recover if they get hit not have the fight stopped. A fighters career can rest on the outcome of 1 bout
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:37 PM   #35
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I agree with everything Duodenum said, Pat, and sorry to hear you weren't pleased with the way it went. He's right though. This really is a great way to get your feet wet and shake out some butterflies without a mark on your record. And it's also true that refs these days are pretty trigger-happy. Especially in the amateurs.
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Old 07-11-2007, 11:19 AM   #36
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Thanks very much.
You're very welcome. Anybody willing to perform as a competitive boxer before a live audience is worthy of much respect and admiration. (It's the ones who step into the ring and then refuse to compete before a paying audience who are contemptible.)
Quote:
You're always mentioning how the sport of boxing is going downhill etc. Do you think that the way boxing is officiated could have anything to do with it. I think it might at the Australian level. The referees are way to quick to jump in at both amatuer and professional level. I went to a pro boxing card about a month ago and the fights that were stopped were stopped before a fighter was even knocked down. In fact only one fighter was knocked down but it was stopped right as he went down. Its pretty ridiculous. Fighters are in there to fight...thats the sport of boxing, they need a chance to recover if they get hit not have the fight stopped. A fighters career can rest on the outcome of 1 bout
(First of all, please forgive me for the length of this following rambling tirade.)

Yes, I absolutely agree with this. The pendulum has swung from one extreme to the other regarding the speed with which referees intervene. Ruby Goldstein was far too slow to halt the action in the rubber match between Emile Grffith and Benny Paret (before a live television audience witnessing the first mortal injury ever sustained by a human being as it happened). While I suspect Paret was a goner with the very first right hand that Griff stunned Benny with, there's no question that referee Goldstein froze as Emile suddenly unleashed his desperate follow-up assault. (Earlier in that match, Benny nearly knocked Griff out with a devastating left hook, Paret's most damaging punch of their entire trilogy.) Boxing wouldn't fully recover until Ali's comeback, and the FOTC.

Nearly 18 years later, referee Lew Eskin also failed to halt a severe beating Willie Classen sustained in NYC's Felt Forum, resulting in yet another high profile fatality. Not long after this, an over aged and out of shape referee was physically unable to separate Gaetan Hart from Cleveland Denny in the tenth round of their rubber match for Hart's Canadian Lightweight Title. That referee was actually waving a halt to the match from behind Hart's back as he battered Denny into senselessness. This high profile disaster took place on the undercard of Duran/SRL I, so it received enormous media scrutiny.

The popularity of boxing was at it's latter day zenith when one of it's most popular stars, Ray Mancini, landed one fatal blow in the 14th round against Deuk Koo Kim. That had two lethal consequences for boxing. One, it served as the excuse for the WBC to immediately order all their title matches to be reduced from 15 to 12 rounds, and less than one month later at the same venue, skiddish referee Joey Curtis robbed Mike Weaver of his WBA HW Championship prematurely, because of the paranoid hysteria following the Kim tragedy. (What dirtbag Jose Sulamain really wanted to do was lengthen the rest period between rounds to 90 seconds from 60 seconds, to greedily try to generate more advertising dollars from television commercials, but he wound up killing the goose which laid the golden egg. The other sanctioning bodies mindlessy followed the WBC's lead in shortening the rounds limit and trying to lengthen the rest period to also generate more commercial revenue, all under the false pretense of improving boxing safety. The sport has never recovered from that blow, and will not, until or unless the 15 round distance is restored.)

Through the early and middle part of the 20th Century, fatalities were accepted as a part of life. While these were certainly tragic events, the times in which they took place were punctuated by two world wars, an economic depression, and other military conflicts. It was frequently necessary to be able to fight to survive. In this climate, the sports media was largely supportive of boxing. But now, times have changed, and the media shifted from a position of pro-violence to opposition against violence.

It used to be that boxers were expected to be tough, and able to take care of themselves. Today, it's become a sissified enterprise where referees are paranoid that they might be responsible for a ring fatality. The underlying interests which are continually promoting increased safety features like mandatory headgear, shorter two minute rounds, and pillows for gloves, ultimately have the complete abolition of boxing as their primary objective.

In the amateur ranks, the imposition of mandatory headgear has been ruinous to it's populariy. Any sport where faces are obscured can be a depersonalizing undertaking. In Olympic ice hockey, the contestants now look like the Evil Empire soldiers out of Star Wars. One major reason U.S. boxing fans were riveted by the success of the 1976 Olympic boxing squad was that we could see their faces in battle, and care about their successes and failures. Now, headgear obscures their features, and as children, aspiring athletes want to be noticed. Equipment which makes them indistinguisable is not a hallmark of a desirable sport for facilitating dreams and fantasies of being recognized and admired for physical prowess. (That's a major reason why basketball and soccer (the American word for football) are so popular today, and hold the public imagination).

Once upon a time, it was an integral and expected part of boxing that participants were expected to be hurt from time to time, and need to be able to develop and have the resiliency to recover on their own. In fact, they usually HAD to prevail through such difficulties in order to cultivate and establish the toughness and resourcefulness necessary to advance to higher levels of competition. Today, boxers are not given an opportunity to evolve beyond an infantile level of competitiveness.

Of course there is a valid time to rationally call a halt to a contest. But referees and rules devoted to a "better safe than sorry" mentality are subverting a sport with a great tradition to the dustbin of history.

(Incidentally, I stopped fantasizing about giving amateur boxing a go when protective headgear was mandated for competition. And if bicycle helmets were required by law when I was a kid, as they are now in many places, I would have never bothered to take up bicycle riding in the first place. I don't like governments that try to tell me how to live my personal life.)
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Old 07-12-2007, 04:20 AM   #37
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Stick with it Pat, look forward to the weekend news mate!
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Old 07-12-2007, 07:06 AM   #38
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Good luck this weekend
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:36 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Duodenum
You're very welcome. Anybody willing to perform as a competitive boxer before a live audience is worthy of much respect and admiration. (It's the ones who step into the ring and then refuse to compete before a paying audience who are contemptible.)(First of all, please forgive me for the length of this following rambling tirade.)

Yes, I absolutely agree with this. The pendulum has swung from one extreme to the other regarding the speed with which referees intervene. Ruby Goldstein was far too slow to halt the action in the rubber match between Emile Grffith and Benny Paret (before a live television audience witnessing the first mortal injury ever sustained by a human being as it happened). While I suspect Paret was a goner with the very first right hand that Griff stunned Benny with, there's no question that referee Goldstein froze as Emile suddenly unleashed his desperate follow-up assault. (Earlier in that match, Benny nearly knocked Griff out with a devastating left hook, Paret's most damaging punch of their entire trilogy.) Boxing wouldn't fully recover until Ali's comeback, and the FOTC.

Nearly 18 years later, referee Lew Eskin also failed to halt a severe beating Willie Classen sustained in NYC's Felt Forum, resulting in yet another high profile fatality. Not long after this, an over aged and out of shape referee was physically unable to separate Gaetan Hart from Cleveland Denny in the tenth round of their rubber match for Hart's Canadian Lightweight Title. That referee was actually waving a halt to the match from behind Hart's back as he battered Denny into senselessness. This high profile disaster took place on the undercard of Duran/SRL I, so it received enormous media scrutiny.

The popularity of boxing was at it's latter day zenith when one of it's most popular stars, Ray Mancini, landed one fatal blow in the 14th round against Deuk Koo Kim. That had two lethal consequences for boxing. One, it served as the excuse for the WBC to immediately order all their title matches to be reduced from 15 to 12 rounds, and less than one month later at the same venue, skiddish referee Joey Curtis robbed Mike Weaver of his WBA HW Championship prematurely, because of the paranoid hysteria following the Kim tragedy. (What dirtbag Jose Sulamain really wanted to do was lengthen the rest period between rounds to 90 seconds from 60 seconds, to greedily try to generate more advertising dollars from television commercials, but he wound up killing the goose which laid the golden egg. The other sanctioning bodies mindlessy followed the WBC's lead in shortening the rounds limit and trying to lengthen the rest period to also generate more commercial revenue, all under the false pretense of improving boxing safety. The sport has never recovered from that blow, and will not, until or unless the 15 round distance is restored.)

Through the early and middle part of the 20th Century, fatalities were accepted as a part of life. While these were certainly tragic events, the times in which they took place were punctuated by two world wars, an economic depression, and other military conflicts. It was frequently necessary to be able to fight to survive. In this climate, the sports media was largely supportive of boxing. But now, times have changed, and the media shifted from a position of pro-violence to opposition against violence.

It used to be that boxers were expected to be tough, and able to take care of themselves. Today, it's become a sissified enterprise where referees are paranoid that they might be responsible for a ring fatality. The underlying interests which are continually promoting increased safety features like mandatory headgear, shorter two minute rounds, and pillows for gloves, ultimately have the complete abolition of boxing as their primary objective.

In the amateur ranks, the imposition of mandatory headgear has been ruinous to it's populariy. Any sport where faces are obscured can be a depersonalizing undertaking. In Olympic ice hockey, the contestants now look like the Evil Empire soldiers out of Star Wars. One major reason U.S. boxing fans were riveted by the success of the 1976 Olympic boxing squad was that we could see their faces in battle, and care about their successes and failures. Now, headgear obscures their features, and as children, aspiring athletes want to be noticed. Equipment which makes them indistinguisable is not a hallmark of a desirable sport for facilitating dreams and fantasies of being recognized and admired for physical prowess. (That's a major reason why basketball and soccer (the American word for football) are so popular today, and hold the public imagination).

Once upon a time, it was an integral and expected part of boxing that participants were expected to be hurt from time to time, and need to be able to develop and have the resiliency to recover on their own. In fact, they usually HAD to prevail through such difficulties in order to cultivate and establish the toughness and resourcefulness necessary to advance to higher levels of competition. Today, boxers are not given an opportunity to evolve beyond an infantile level of competitiveness.

Of course there is a valid time to rationally call a halt to a contest. But referees and rules devoted to a "better safe than sorry" mentality are subverting a sport with a great tradition to the dustbin of history.

(Incidentally, I stopped fantasizing about giving amateur boxing a go when protective headgear was mandated for competition. And if bicycle helmets were required by law when I was a kid, as they are now in many places, I would have never bothered to take up bicycle riding in the first place. I don't like governments that try to tell me how to live my personal life.)
Wow, one of the best posts I've ever read. The best thing to take from that post is your line to describe the approach to boxing these days "Better safe then sorry". I completely agree. Also regarding headgear, I'm not sure if many studies are done but I was under the impression that headgear does little to reduce brain trauma. It mainly reduces cuts and scratches but knockouts and concussions still occur based on the fact that these are caused by the brain being pushed against the skull, headgear can't stop that. It wouldn't be a big blow to safety if it was removed.

One issue I have with new safety measures being implemented is the use of higher ounce gloves at certain weights. This is a two edged sword. In theory it would seem this would cause less damage and reduce the chance of long term brain damage but, using these will result in less knockouts and fights being prolonged allowing for more punishment to be sustained. They were fine as they were.

One last question, I'm interested into what brought about the demise of boxing on mainstream tv. In Australia I'm not sure when it was removed but it was before I can remember although I haven't been following boxing that long.
PPV figures for De La Hoya-Mayweather show this was the biggest fight in history (according to PPV numbers and revenue) but, Frazier-Ali I and Louis-Schemeling II were by far the bigger bouts but were only shown on normal TV, I've read an estimated billion people watched Frazier-Ali I. This shows what coverage and audience a massive fight could be delivered to if shown on regular TV. Imagine if DLH-PBF was shown on regular tv.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:04 PM   #40
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Hey I just thought I'd bring this thread up again as I did have my actual first fight last night not an exhibition. It was a 3 hour drive (Newcastle) from where I live but it was worth it. I won a split decision but from what the majority of people said it was a pretty convincing win. The other guy was 23 so he had an age advantage by quite a bit and it was his first fight as well and I was also put in the weight division above my normal one for some reason so he had a 2kg advantage.

But yeah it was a good fight, a bit sloppy but I thought I won the 1st and 2nd round pretty clearly by using my jab alot and landing a few good lead right hands. In the 3rd he came out guns blazing and I withstood it, while copping quite a few punchesand came back in the second minute of the round and evened it up.

Now I'm just looking forward to my next fight in about 3 weeks at South Sydney again, against the opponent that didn't show up last time.
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Old 07-20-2007, 09:57 PM   #41
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Hey I just thought I'd bring this thread up again as I did have my actual first fight last night not an exhibition. It was a 3 hour drive (Newcastle) from where I live but it was worth it. I won a split decision but from what the majority of people said it was a pretty convincing win. The other guy was 23 so he had an age advantage by quite a bit and it was his first fight as well and I was also put in the weight division above my normal one for some reason so he had a 2kg advantage.

But yeah it was a good fight, a bit sloppy but I thought I won the 1st and 2nd round pretty clearly by using my jab alot and landing a few good lead right hands. In the 3rd he came out guns blazing and I withstood it, while copping quite a few punchesand came back in the second minute of the round and evened it up.

Now I'm just looking forward to my next fight in about 3 weeks at South Sydney again, against the opponent that didn't show up last time.


...............And so the legend begins......fine work, man. In a few years, we'll be arguing about your pound for pound status.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:13 PM   #42
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...............And so the legend begins......fine work, man. In a few years, we'll be arguing about your pound for pound status.
Of course! "I am the greatest...I told the world...etc etc"
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:19 PM   #43
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Of course! "I am the greatest...I told the world...etc etc"

...........How were the nerves? Sounds like they were doing alright, obviously.


As to your earlier question about the demise of boxing on TV, I wish I knew...........it was a cash cow for so long, and at least here in the states, dies after the early nineties. They'd been a fixture on free TV from the fifties (maybe even the early forties) and doing just fine, and then........a ghostly silence. Nada. I really wish I could answer this question.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:28 PM   #44
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Of course! "I am the greatest...I told the world...etc etc"
Please don't start doing a Naz, "I'm gonna be a legend!", well at least until you've had a few more fights anyway.
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Old 07-20-2007, 10:29 PM   #45
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...........How were the nerves? Sounds like they were doing alright, obviously.


As to your earlier question about the demise of boxing on TV, I wish I knew...........it was a cash cow for so long, and at least here in the states, dies after the early nineties. They'd been a fixture on free TV from the fifties (maybe even the early forties) and doing just fine, and then........a ghostly silence. Nada. I really wish I could answer this question.
The nerves were pretty bad, those last 10 minutes leading up the fight. I was walking around in normal clothes up until the event started and they just come up and say "you're up next". So it was hurried but I got time to warm up and shit. You're nervous right up until that first bell goes then it all stops, the crowd gets blocked out, everything. The best thing in the fight though was that 1 minute break because, when I train my trainer has the timer rest set for 30 seconds. So that minute feels like forever and after about 30 or 35 seconds I'm ready to go again and was standing. Did you ever compete Sal?

It is strange that network boxing dissapeared. If I recall wasn't De La Hoya pretty much the last person to be promoted on free-to-air TV. If so look at what it resulted in, one of the biggest draws of the last 15 years. Just shows how much of a difference it makes. I imagine if they put boxing back on it could and would be a ratings winner, the right bouts just have to be made, like this Vasquez-Marquez II fight coming up would be perfect. Its almost guaranteed to be a war and would be a great showcase. In recent times wasn't a Tarver fight ment to be on ABC sometime this year. Thats what I remember
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