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Old 02-13-2008, 06:37 PM   #16
jc
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Its a close decision at 160, id prob edge towards Roy.

Anything above middleweight though and I think jones wins by quite a margin.
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Tis fight would be about even money for me, if I had to favor someone it would probably be Roy.

Last edited by Marciano Frazier; 02-12-2007 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

It is hard to say

SRR has lost to lesser fighters than Roy

on the other hand, even looking at the hops-roy fight, roy isnt unbeatible and he doesnt KO everyone at 160, the rounds roy lost were the ones where hops had him on the ropes. Hops had problems with Roys speed, he had problems landing when they were in the center, but he was never hurt or in any trouble

SRR does have the speed to keep up with roy, and he does have the power to get his respect. if he fights right and pressures him to the ropes, he could definitely win
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Sounds like a toss-up to me. I always think that it's hard to compare RJJ to other ATG's, as he looked virtually invincible everytime he fought (untill his late years obviously). Obviously he cannot be god-like in comparison to SRR, but I would have hard time pointing out the reasons why he would lose, as he showed no particular weaknesses in his prime.
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Old 02-13-2008, 07:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jc
Its a close decision at 160, id prob edge towards Roy.

Anything above middleweight though and I think jones wins by quite a margin.
MW Roy could run and get a decision (this is SRR at MW, not WW).

But if Jones goes into his "chicken dance" routine, then he
will "Fulmerized", and asked afterwards what truck that was
that ran over him.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:56 PM   #21
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
MW Roy could run and get a decision (this is SRR at MW, not WW).

But if Jones goes into his "chicken dance" routine, then he
will "Fulmerized", and asked afterwards what truck that was
that ran over him.
he'd be leaving the ring on a strecher if that happened
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Old 02-13-2008, 09:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
MW Roy could run and get a decision (this is SRR at MW, not WW).

But if Jones goes into his "chicken dance" routine, then he
will "Fulmerized", and asked afterwards what truck that was
that ran over him.
at Jones running against a smaller fighter who's primarily a boxer himself, and one he is arguably more powerful than at the weight.
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

My answer is yes, Jones probably COULD upset Robinson, but weather or not he actually WOULD is another story.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:25 AM   #24
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Roy would give him some major trouble and might win
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Old 02-14-2008, 08:55 AM   #25
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
My answer is yes, Jones probably COULD upset Robinson, but weather or not he actually WOULD is another story.
I agree Roy is good enough to beat anyone but Robinson would be the favourite here.
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Old 02-14-2008, 07:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Absolutely yes...Roy Jones Jr. could beat Ray Robinson at 160 lbs. Roy is one of the most physically gifted fighters in the history of the sport...No question. Despite his relatively short stay at middleweight, he would be very hard to beat at 160 lbs, for any ATG...
You can go down the line and check Roy's advantages over Ray of size, strength, speed, and comparable power at 160 lbs.
How would Ray even begin to compete with Jones? Let's discuss one aspect that isn't really discussed much...the mental aspect. Roy was brought up by a very strict disiplinarian father to be a fighter...his future was decided for him...I remember an interview where Roy stated that he would work out for up to twelve hours a day at times...If he did not run fast enough during roadwork, he was hit with a PVC pipe, to go faster...It's safe to say that this upbringing is what strained their future relationship...Despite that kind of upbringing Roy has not displayed a vicious streak in the ring...I'm not saying this as a fault, eveyone's personalities are different, and Roy is one of my favorite fighters...Perhaps the tragedy of the McCllellan/Benn fight has something to do with his ring persona...Even before the McClellan fight, Roy was more safety first than aggressive...Again, that is not a fault, but that seems to be his trait.
Ray Robinson?...I believe one of the things that set him apart was his mental toughness...I know that sounds very cliche' but think about it...Robinson had to wait over five years before getting the chance at a world championship. In segregated America, Robinson knew if he failed to do his very best only one time...He may never get a chance. I'm not certain of coarse, but I'd imagine that's how he felt. That kind of pressure to succeed makes a hungary man...a desparate man...and a dangerous man.
Notable poster John Garfield has spoken that Robinson always smiled on cue for the cameras...but underneath was a stone cold killer...If you watch the films, in most instances where Robinson is being hit, he characteristically fires back immediately with a fury.
If Roy were to hurt Robinson in this fight, would Roy commit to attempting to finish him? IMO I don't think so...Robinson would be at a disadvantage in physical catagories, but it is not a large skill disparity by any means...Robinson is fast, skilled, and very powerful at 160 lbs. Why I would pick Robinson to overcome Jones is this...Robinson has been in hard experiences where he has had to fight through hardships of pain and fatigue...and mentally force himself to overcome...Roy has yet to face such a trail by fire...Experience is a invaluable teacher in hard circumstances...I like Roy...but Robinson is a harder man...and IMO that would mark the difference in a contest between these two.
I like Robinson by decision in 15 rounds at middleweight.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:07 AM   #27
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzard
I agree Roy is good enough to beat anyone but Robinson would be the favourite here.
Boxrec lists both boxers at 5' 11".

By definition of the thread, both are middleweights at 160 lbs.

So they are equal in size.

Ray was never knocked out, did retire against Maxim (listed as TKO).

Jones was knocked out twice, once cold.

The difference would be in the San Andreas Fault of someone's chin, which is basically the reason for his style.
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:24 AM   #28
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury
Since we're discussing Robinson lately...could RJJ defeat Ray at middleweight?

Both have to weigh in on the day of the fight at no more than 160 to make it more fair. (Since Roy was probably closer to 170 come fight time and Ray scaled barely over the jnr. middleweight limit.)
id say roy jones only because of the training and dietry science we know now

i think in his prime we never saw jones so what he could really do when faced with adversity

but p4p i still sa sugar ray robinson all time bcause how good he was compared to his time was better than anyone else compared to there time he is equaled by pep byt pep didnt have the power

just so you know my p4p top 3

SRR
WP
RJJR
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Old 02-16-2008, 12:20 AM   #29
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

In truth, Roy could only upset Sugar Ray in name terms and ATG status only. In terms of physique, Roy is the naturally bigger man and it is arguable that he should, then, be deemed the favourite.

In my eyes, SRR is at his best (in respect to this hypothetical) around 154 lbs i.e when producing such efforts as the Valentine's Day Massacre, he was weighing in around the junior middleweight limit. This is where, I believe him to still have the footspeed, stamina, ability and punching power to put a dent in any man to have competed under 160 lbs, in the RIGHT situation/circumstances.

I can see this match up resembling Leonard vs. Hearns I, in terms of the pattern of dominance, with RJJ bouncing in and out of range with lead left hooks and right hand leads. I can see SRR struggling at first to handle the speed, unorthodox style, angles and power of RJJ. However, in my mind, I know one thing and that is that I don't envisage SRR being knocked out. For me, this is a problem for RJJ. SRR was a mean son of a bitch in there and like john garfield has stated on many occassion, was a "stone cold killer". A fighter, as naturally talented, with such an aptitude for vicious combination punching combined with real ring intelligence isn't going to get caught by lead left hooks and right hand leads forever ... they aren't going to fail to open up their own devastating hands when RJJ goes to the ropes and momentarily shuts his eyes or turns his head away when punches are being thrown in his direction ...

I see SRR battered and bruised, mean, focused and intent coming after RJJ, slowly but surely taking away his authority by timing him, using his footwork, firing back viciously when hit and taking chances when RJJ retreats to the ropes. I see a SRR being behind on the cards by several rounds, catching RJJ, Fullmer style ... jabbing at the body, stepping back, catching a leaping in RJJ with a vicious left hook and then following up with a straight right ... whilst RJJ, IMO, had a good chin at this weight, I see SRR breaking him ... I don't think that RJJ was experienced or tested enough at this weight to see him holding out a primed, focus and intent SRR.

Nope, I don't arrive at this conclusion based on name ranking, but because fundamentally, I favour SRR's technique, experience, willingness to go into the trenches over RJJ's extremely impressive physical assets, which, IMO, at this stage in his career lacked the experience to hold him steady under the type of pressure that a fighter as gifted and dangerous as a SRR would put him under.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:49 AM   #30
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Default Re: Could Roy Jones upset Ray Robinson?

Jones by KO within first 6 rounds. Robinson's defense was flawed (not enough head and body movement, hands held too low when opponent is within firing range), he has no chance whatsoever to win at long range against Jones, and he cannot fight in close to try to avoid the punishment he'll be receiving. Robinson's chin wasn't very solid either, as was proven by multiple knockdowns and by argueably being knocked out by Bell. Robinson's punching power comes from punches that surprised his opponents, and he won't be able to surprise Jones with anything, while the same cannot be said about the opposite, Jones is too unorthodox for Robinson to read him and be ready for what comes his way.
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