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View Poll Results: Submission or KO?
Submission 4 18.18%
KO 18 81.82%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-04-2013, 12:45 PM   #16
greathamza
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

KOs are it for me nothing compares to when JDS KOd Cain, Jose Aldos double knee KO or Andersons front kick KO
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Old 03-04-2013, 12:55 PM   #17
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

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Originally Posted by RJJFan View Post
I wonder if you know of a Thai fighter who supposedly wins all of his fights with elbows? A Thai trainer showed me a clip of a fighter who doesn't look like much but seemingly always gets the elbow in and cuts the opponent so the ref stops the match. I don't remember his name.
Current or old skool fighter?

You do get some fighters famed for their elbows, but to be honest it's an impossibility to finish all your fights with an elbow, especially in Thai MT. If he's a famous boxer he's probably got over 200 fights and it just wouldn't add up. For a mulitude of reasons Thai MT fighters have very low KO rates with 35% ratio seen as high. Even a KO specialist like Coban only had around 30%(?).

Unlike the west where fans are very KO hungry the Thais are the opposite, they wanna see 5 rounds of beautiful boxing, especially the gamblers. A fighter who gets a rep for early stoppages would find it had to get bookings for fights, he's too risky to match against a decent fighter and too predictable for the gamblers. He kinda becomes untouchable, the fans, the gamblers and the promoters aren't interested.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:15 PM   #18
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

Id Prefer a Knockout, but it kinda depends on whos on the receiving end. Like Bisping i dont care if its a KO , SUB, or a Boring Okami like Decision.

But yea KO
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

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Originally Posted by boranbkk View Post
Current or old skool fighter?

You do get some fighters famed for their elbows, but to be honest it's an impossibility to finish all your fights with an elbow, especially in Thai MT. If he's a famous boxer he's probably got over 200 fights and it just wouldn't add up. For a mulitude of reasons Thai MT fighters have very low KO rates with 35% ratio seen as high. Even a KO specialist like Coban only had around 30%(?).

Unlike the west where fans are very KO hungry the Thais are the opposite, they wanna see 5 rounds of beautiful boxing, especially the gamblers. A fighter who gets a rep for early stoppages would find it had to get bookings for fights, he's too risky to match against a decent fighter and too predictable for the gamblers. He kinda becomes untouchable, the fans, the gamblers and the promoters aren't interested.
Very interesting cheers. I'm pretty sure he's old school as the footage was grainy. The trainer told me that he had over 100 fights ending by elbow, mostly cuts, which forced a stoppage. He moved like a zombie, absorbing kicks and punches until he gets in clinch range and then when they back away, there's a cut on his opponent. It was pretty impressive how he can get that on all his opponents when they know its coming.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:34 PM   #20
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

Gimme Hendo's KO over Bisping and Wand's KO over Sakuraba over any sub ever
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:59 PM   #21
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

Submissions can be just exciting/shocking, I think.

For example, Frank Mir subbing Nog elicited the same response as a big KO in me.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:07 PM   #22
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

I like both. Swarming ground and pound stoppages suck.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:15 PM   #23
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

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Originally Posted by RJJFan View Post
Very interesting cheers. I'm pretty sure he's old school as the footage was grainy. The trainer told me that he had over 100 fights ending by elbow, mostly cuts, which forced a stoppage. He moved like a zombie, absorbing kicks and punches until he gets in clinch range and then when they back away, there's a cut on his opponent. It was pretty impressive how he can get that on all his opponents when they know its coming.
If it's grainy but colourful it's probably the Golden age of the late 80s and 90s. The "zombie" tag you put on him makes me think of Charoensap who was famed for elbows and equally famed for taking huge amounts of punishment whilst constantly stalking forward, but to be honest the golden age was full of fighters that kinda fit that description. Here's afight of Charoensap's I recently posted in the ATG thread. It finishes with an elbow strike. He's fighting fellow ATG Hippy Singmanee who was diving almost two weight divisions to Charoensap! He's in the black shorts, is that the guy your talking about?

BORKED

Jongsanan was another famously durable fighter with good elbows here he is in red against fellow ATG Sakmongkol. This is a very very famous bout called "the elbow war" mainly cos of the absolute ridiculous madness of round 2 (1.42). Is this the guy?

BORKED

No offence to your coach but I think he's mistaken the 100 elbow finishes just doesn't ring right. Stoppages on cuts in the good old days of the 90s were very rare you'd have to be majorly sliced up on many angels before the'd stop a fight. The elbow is almost impossible to set up because of the range. It's a strike that when effective tends to be thrown in a very opportunistic way, largely due to where you find yourself at the time in terms of foot positioning and distancing. It’s one of those techniques that if you’re looking hard to land it you probably won’t, especially off a drilled combo. It gets landed and has the most effect when situation & circumstance take over and your reflexes kick in once you’ve spotted that rare chance in unusual range, if your quick enough you got to let it fly.

By the way there is another ATG name bouncing around my head in connection to elbows and it begins with Nong-------, it'll come to me!

Last edited by boranbkk; 03-04-2013 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:07 AM   #24
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

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Originally Posted by boranbkk View Post
If it's grainy but colourful it's probably the Golden age of the late 80s and 90s. The "zombie" tag you put on him makes me think of Charoensap who was famed for elbows and equally famed for taking huge amounts of punishment whilst constantly stalking forward, but to be honest the golden age was full of fighters that kinda fit that description. Here's afight of Charoensap's I recently posted in the ATG thread. It finishes with an elbow strike. He's fighting fellow ATG Hippy Singmanee who was diving almost two weight divisions to Charoensap! He's in the black shorts, is that the guy your talking about?

BORKED

Jongsanan was another famously durable fighter with good elbows here he is in red against fellow ATG Sakmongkol. This is a very very famous bout called "the elbow war" mainly cos of the absolute ridiculous madness of round 2 (1.42). Is this the guy?

BORKED

No offence to your coach but I think he's mistaken the 100 elbow finishes just doesn't ring right. Stoppages on cuts in the good old days of the 90s were very rare you'd have to be majorly sliced up on many angels before the'd stop a fight. The elbow is almost impossible to set up because of the range. It's a strike that when effective tends to be thrown in a very opportunistic way, largely due to where you find yourself at the time in terms of foot positioning and distancing. It’s one of those techniques that if you’re looking hard to land it you probably won’t, especially off a drilled combo. It gets landed and has the most effect when situation & circumstance take over and your reflexes kick in once you’ve spotted that rare chance in unusual range, if your quick enough you got to let it fly.

By the way there is another ATG name bouncing around my head in connection to elbows and it begins with Nong-------, it'll come to me!
Much thanks BKK. I believe thats him on top. He had the same kind of disdain for punishment but this one looks like he was in his prime, and a lot faster.

Yeah, I saw that Jongsanan fight and for me, its a bit too brutal to watch. I've met Jongsanan and its hard to imagine such a jolly guy to have taken and dealt out that kind of punishment. Fun bouncing with him to all the Thai restaurants as he gets the royal treatment!

Interesting about the elbow stoppages, the video I saw had Chareonsap(I believe) cut the guy with the elbow, spring backwards and point at his opponent and the ref came in to examine the cut which was not severe but the ref waved it off. The trainer told me there were some new regulations to make Thai boxing safer or something like that. But I'll take your word as he's Laotian.
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

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Much thanks BKK. I believe thats him on top. He had the same kind of disdain for punishment but this one looks like he was in his prime, and a lot faster.

Yeah, I saw that Jongsanan fight and for me, its a bit too brutal to watch. I've met Jongsanan and its hard to imagine such a jolly guy to have taken and dealt out that kind of punishment. Fun bouncing with him to all the Thai restaurants as he gets the royal treatment!

Interesting about the elbow stoppages, the video I saw had Chareonsap(I believe) cut the guy with the elbow, spring backwards and point at his opponent and the ref came in to examine the cut which was not severe but the ref waved it off. The trainer told me there were some new regulations to make Thai boxing safer or something like that. But I'll take your word as he's Laotian.
There is no better way to have a Thai feast than with an legendary ATG!

There is another ATG fighter from the same era very similar in style to Charoensap with a similar look called Chamuekpet so it may also be him in your friends clip, although I think Charoensap's more remembered for elbows.

There was a major set of rule changes in the early 2000s that emphasised certain techniques like knees over others techniques, banned things like ploughing and took away the force pre strike issue when judging amongst other things. Part of the reason why we see less wars these days and much more clinch and knee work. It's still much harder than in the west to get a fight stopped on cuts though....

This fight between two top ATGs the crafty Karuhat VS the knee specialist Lamnamoon. This fight doesn't get get stopped on cuts, but probably would've done in the west. (if I remember rightly, I can't stream VDO in my current location almost zero bandwidth). This fight was posted in the ATG thread and I remember Lamnamoon gets cut up pretty bad and the commentator mentioning that the 1st Rd cut needed 5 stitches, the 2nd Rd cut 6 stitches and the 3rd Rd cut 7 stiches, so 18 stiches in 3 rounds……gotta luv elbows.

BORKED
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boranbkk View Post
There is no better way to have a Thai feast than with an legendary ATG!

There is another ATG fighter from the same era very similar in style to Charoensap with a similar look called Chamuekpet so it may also be him in your friends clip, although I think Charoensap's more remembered for elbows.

There was a major set of rule changes in the early 2000s that emphasised certain techniques like knees over others techniques, banned things like ploughing and took away the force pre strike issue when judging amongst other things. Part of the reason why we see less wars these days and much more clinch and knee work. It's still much harder than in the west to get a fight stopped on cuts though....

This fight between two top ATGs the crafty Karuhat VS the knee specialist Lamnamoon. This fight doesn't get get stopped on cuts, but probably would've done in the west. (if I remember rightly, I can't stream VDO in my current location almost zero bandwidth). This fight was posted in the ATG thread and I remember Lamnamoon gets cut up pretty bad and the commentator mentioning that the 1st Rd cut needed 5 stitches, the 2nd Rd cut 6 stitches and the 3rd Rd cut 7 stiches, so 18 stiches in 3 rounds……gotta luv elbows.

BORKED
Much thanks BKK, I'm downloading that vid, its like an instructional on how to throw elbows against a taller fighter. I assume the shorter one is Karuhat?
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:23 AM   #27
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

Just bleed.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Do you like Great Submissions or Great KO's?

But on the other side who minds a great SUB like the RNC Maia put on Story

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Maia was going to take that head home with him and mount it on his wall
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:27 PM   #29
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When this man hits the deck, I shit my pants and scream until it's over

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