Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

[illwill007]

A lot of this is based on public perception of the achievements, based on that, Pacquiao will still have a higher ATG placement on most list. Mayweather's 130 domination alone and at his age is enough to crack top 40 IMO, but ranking ATG's is tough because it's COMPLETELY subjective. One could argue any ATG top 20 as a top 10 and maybe even number one. Some say Ali is number one, others Sam Langford, and most say SRR. Some, a few, boxing historians will one day put Mayweather's career in the top 5 of all time.

We can apply metrics and say he was pound 4 pound top 10 longer than any other boxer. He has the best +/- percentage in Compubox stats history, always fought fighters coming off of big wins. He beat X amount of pound 4 pound fighters. He toyed with a fighter that completely destroyed Pacquiao. Others will say that it's fabricated due to his competition, or lack thereof.

His career is elite and great, but because he has the arrogance and bad boy persona, he will always be down graded. He did it to himself. That was his chosen path to greatness.

I think that a win over Pacquiao any time before the Marquez K.O. would have sky rocketed him up the ATG list. It's really hard to crack that top 20 though.

[Imperial1]

None it ain't ever going to happen that boat has sailed a long time ago !

[anj]

Originally Posted by illwill007

A lot of this is based on public perception of the achievements, based on that, Pacquiao will still have a higher ATG placement on most list. Mayweather's 130 domination alone and at his age is enough to crack top 40 IMO, but ranking ATG's is tough because it's COMPLETELY subjective. One could argue any ATG top 20 as a top 10 and maybe even number one. Some say Ali is number one, others Sam Langford, and most say SRR. Some, a few, boxing historians will one day put Mayweather's career in the top 5 of all time.

We can apply metrics and say he was pound 4 pound top 10 longer than any other boxer. He has the best +/- percentage in Compubox stats history, always fought fighters coming off of big wins. He beat X amount of pound 4 pound fighters. He toyed with a fighter that completely destroyed Pacquiao. Others will say that it's fabricated due to his competition, or lack thereof.

His career is elite and great, but because he has the arrogance and bad boy persona, he will always be down graded. He did it to himself. That was his chosen path to greatness.

I think that a win over Pacquiao any time before the Marquez K.O. would have sky rocketed him up the ATG list. It's really hard to crack that top 20 though.

- Others who say that it's fabricated due to his competition have an extremely valid point. In the mix with a Cotto or Castillo, he got hit a lot more often.

- No one will put Mayweather in Top 20. His post-Castillo career is very poor for an ATG. Mayweather should not have done that as he doesn't have a 'Hearns' or 'Duran' in his era to beat. It does fuck with his ranking a lot. It would make up for it a bit if his career was as it SHOULD have been:
Fights with Paul Williams, Margarito, Casamayor, Freitas, prime Mosley, prime Oscar.

- The Pacquiao of the Marquez 4 fight would definitely put him VERY high up.

[irishny]

The Trout/Canelo winner/
Martinez at 154.
Pacquiao
Bradley

Retire.

He doesnt even need 6 fights

[duwdu]

EDIT...perceived as being as durable and fierce as Duran, if not more so.

[moneypaysbills]

Originally Posted by duwdu

I believe Mayweather would also defeat both Benitez and Hearns, prime p4p.

P34c3

Hearns is the complete wrong style for mayweather, hits too hard and is much too big. I highly rate floyd and am a fan but he does not have a chance against the hitman. No way, no how

[Richel Hersisia]

Originally Posted by MVC

In the opinions of many experts whom I've talked with, most of them agree that Floyd Mayweather is currently a top 25 ATG. I agree with this.

I believe that wins over Martinez, Garcia, Canelo/Trout, Pac, Devon, Matthyse, Guerrero could potentially pull him to a top 15-20 spot

I really hope he fights those guys in his last 6 fights

what?? You think he's 25 now and would only climb 5 spots after he beat those???

I think he's around 40 now.. But if he beats Martinez at 160 and nothing else.. i have him climbing at least 15 places, maybe more...

Guerrero, Bradley, Canelo/Trout Winner and Martinez ( if he is still 160 king pin)... He would be top 15 imo.. Guerrero won't mean much.. But Martinez would be by far the best win of his career.. Canelo/Trout winner his 2nd best win.. And Bradley will be in the top 5 too...

[illwill007]

Originally Posted by anj

- Others who say that it's fabricated due to his competition have an extremely valid point.

As do the people who say it's a great record. It's a matter of opinion and both can be supported by facts.

Originally Posted by anj

In the mix with a Cotto or Castillo, he got hit a lot more often.

Castillo fight he had a torn rotator cuff, and it was his first time at 135. Cotto was a good fight coming off a long layoff. And in the Marquez fight(a better fighter than both Cotto or Castillo), only 12% of punches landed on him.

There's also "styles make fights". Cotto and Castillo pressure style was not as good a style matchup as Marquez. Yet he still won these fights.

You could retort that he cheated Marquez on the scales and that he moved up in weight. I could say that he up to 154 to beat Oscar. You could say Floyd struggled against Oscar, and I could say that was his first time at the weight. We can do this all day with most boxers.

We can do this with any sport. Take Michael Jordan for example. A lot call him the greatest. Some say he was the benefactor of "Jordan Rules". Even in the dunk contest of 1988, where MJ was donned "Air Jordan", there was controversy.

In the final dunk Dominique Wilkins did the famous windmill dunk and many think he should have received a score of 50, he got a 45. Mike did his famous free throw line dunk and win's the competition. Some say Jordan should have won, others say Wilkins! It's subjective.

Originally Posted by anj

- No one will put Mayweather in Top 20.

Today, your right! But some will, one day.

[duwdu]

Originally Posted by moneypaysbills

Hearns is the complete wrong style for mayweather, hits too hard and is much too big. I highly rate floyd and am a fan but he does not have a chance against the hitman. No way, no how

Skills, my man, skills, that is a commodity some tend to underrate in Mayweather. I hope you're not saying that prime for prime, weight for weight, and size for size, that Hearns would beat Mayweather? It's not enough to be able to hit harder.

My man, Hearns is way below Mayweather in terms of boxing skill, and that is reflected on most historical/fantasy ranking lists.

I don't want to sound uncharitable towards Hearns, because he's not exactly like John Ruiz, and he fought brave although loosing wars against his natural colleagues in SRL and the Marvelous MH. However, who didn't recognize that John Ruiz was much bigger and could hit much harder than RJJ?

P34c3

[anj]

Originally Posted by illwill007

As do the people who say it's a great record. It's a matter of opinion and both can be supported by facts.



Castillo fight he had a torn rotator cuff, and it was his first time at 135. Cotto was a good fight coming off a long layoff. And in the Marquez fight(a better fighter than both Cotto or Castillo), only 12% of punches landed on him.

There's also "styles make fights". Cotto and Castillo pressure style was not as good a style matchup as Marquez. Yet he still won these fights.

You could retort that he cheated Marquez on the scales and that he moved up in weight. I could say that he up to 154 to beat Oscar. You could say Floyd struggled against Oscar, and I could say that was his first time at the weight. We can do this all day with most boxers.

We can do this with any sport. Take Michael Jordan for example. A lot call him the greatest. Some say he was the benefactor of "Jordan Rules". Even in the dunk contest of 1988, where MJ was donned "Air Jordan", there was controversy.

In the final dunk Dominique Wilkins did the famous windmill dunk and many think he should have received a score of 50, he got a 45. Mike did his famous free throw line dunk and win's the competition. Some say Jordan should have won, others say Wilkins! It's subjective.



Today, your right! But some will, one day.

MVC, I'm not talking about Castillo 1.
'Coming off a long layoff' - these layoffs at this part of Mayweather's career is better for him more than it harms him. You know that.
Oscar was 3 years past his prime and most knowledgeable posters on this forum agree that Prime Oscar beats Mayweather on points.
I have Mayweather beating Marquez even if Marquez was prime at 160lbs, and had Memo's new training.
H2H, Mayweather loses to Oscar and Whitaker. Whitaker was a more skilled boxer, that's usually why he's one of the greatest i.e Top 20. Because Mayweather falls short H2H against many GREAT ATGs, he's going to have a tough time making Top 20.

[moneypaysbills]

Originally Posted by duwdu

Skills, my man, skills, that is a commodity some tend to underrate in Mayweather. I hope you're not saying that prime for prime, weight for weight, and size for size, that Hearns would beat Mayweather? It's not enough to be able to hit harder.

My man, Hearns is way below Mayweather in terms of boxing skill, and that is reflected on most historical/fantasy ranking lists.

I don't want to sound uncharitable towards Hearns, because he's not exactly like John Ruiz, and he fought brave although loosing wars against his natural colleagues in SRL and the Marvelous MH. However, who didn't recognize that John Ruiz was much bigger and could hit much harder than RJJ?

P34c3

Hearns had great skills, and I agree if they were the same size it would be different. However, Hearns's size advantage is very advantageous against most at 147-154 and as for power, well apart from overconfidence more power is better.

Leonard lost to Hearns in the rematch and in today's 12 round format would have lost a decision in the first fight.

As for marvelous, if Tommy hadn't broken his hand then who knows?

Also please never again mention John Ruiz in the same conversation as Hearns, SRL, Hagler and floyd

[prelude]

Originally Posted by moneypaysbills

Hearns is the complete wrong style for mayweather, hits too hard and is much too big. I highly rate floyd and am a fan but he does not have a chance against the hitman. No way, no how

Anybody that get in the ring always has a chance but you're right Mayweather wouldn't have a chance because that coward wouldn't even think for a second to get in the ring with Hearns.

[anj]

Originally Posted by duwdu

Skills, my man, skills, that is a commodity some tend to underrate in Mayweather. I hope you're not saying that prime for prime, weight for weight, and size for size, that Hearns would beat Mayweather? It's not enough to be able to hit harder.

My man, Hearns is way below Mayweather in terms of boxing skill, and that is reflected on most historical/fantasy ranking lists.

I don't want to sound uncharitable towards Hearns, because he's not exactly like John Ruiz, and he fought brave although loosing wars against his natural colleagues in SRL and the Marvelous MH. However, who didn't recognize that John Ruiz was much bigger and could hit much harder than RJJ?

P34c3

Hearns owned Benitez like there's no tommorrow and Benitez is a BETTER boxer than Mayweather against Hearns. Mayweather doesn't have the same offensive game to hurt Hearns either, Benitez does.
You're talking about RJJ, one of the top 3 best fighters of all time H2H, vs John Ruiz....
I HIGHLY doubt you know anything about Hearns tbh. Not even a prime Sugar Ray Leonard can outbox Hearns.
Virtually everyone agrees that Hearns gives Mayweather a beating.

[duwdu]

Originally Posted by illwill007

As do the people who say it's a great record. It's a matter of opinion and both can be supported by facts.

Today, your right! [That literarily none would have Mayweather in the Top 20 ATG.] But some will, one day.

I fully identify with these lines or reasoning. With the latter paragraph, as older generations of boxing historians pass away, and their place is taken by more recent historians.

P34c3

[Bushbaby]

If I ever engage in a discussion with someone who cannot name 25 greater fighter's than Floyd all time, I'd shut up & move on real quick.