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Old 03-09-2013, 02:08 PM   #16
the cobra
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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Originally Posted by the_bigunit View Post
Kid Azteca of Mexico: 1929-1961, 33 straight calendar years. More than anybody else in history.
I think Duran has a couple months on him. Didn't have a fight in '90 though, so I guess there's that.


Anyway...

In terms of defying age, Hopkins is #1. Definitely, for me. There's more to longevity than that though, and as such, you have to give this to Moore. He wasn't just old, he had to battle through hundreds of fights against maybe the most ridiculously stacked competition that any boxer has ever faced, doing so from middle to heavy. So yeah, it's Moore.

Hopkins is doing special things though.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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I think Duran has a couple months on him. Didn't have a fight in '90 though, so I guess there's that.


Anyway...

In terms of defying age, Hopkins is #1. Definitely, for me. There's more to longevity than that though, and as such, you have to give this to Moore. He wasn't just old, he had to battle through hundreds of fights against maybe the most ridiculously stacked competition that any boxer has ever faced, doing so from middle to heavy. So yeah, it's Moore.

Hopkins is doing special things though.
He's at 32. He also didnt fight in '85.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:18 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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It's easy to have longevity when you fight once per year (maybe!). Hopkins is skilled, yes. But his longevity, imho, is based mostly on NOT fighting (keeping those miles off the odometer) and the atrocious state of pro boxing over the past several years. His opposition, in comparison to other eras, has been easy.

I'd rather not compare him to Archie Moore, who kept up a MUCH more rapid clip against MUCH better opposition. Put Hopkins in another era and I don't believe he would have the same longevity that he has now.

I could never consider Hopkins the "greatest" anything. Not even close.
greatest bernard i think
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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It's easy to have longevity when you fight once per year (maybe!). Hopkins is skilled, yes. But his longevity, imho, is based mostly on NOT fighting (keeping those miles off the odometer) and the atrocious state of pro boxing over the past several years. His opposition, in comparison to other eras, has been easy.

I'd rather not compare him to Archie Moore, who kept up a MUCH more rapid clip against MUCH better opposition. Put Hopkins in another era and I don't believe he would have the same longevity that he has now.

I could never consider Hopkins the "greatest" anything. Not even close.
Let's not do this.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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Noone else has been consistently at the top level as long as he has. Others have had success at an old age but noone matches his consistency.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:39 PM   #21
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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I think Duran has a couple months on him. Didn't have a fight in '90 though, so I guess there's that.


Anyway...

In terms of defying age, Hopkins is #1. Definitely, for me. There's more to longevity than that though, and as such, you have to give this to Moore. He wasn't just old, he had to battle through hundreds of fights against maybe the most ridiculously stacked competition that any boxer has ever faced, doing so from middle to heavy. So yeah, it's Moore.

Hopkins is doing special things though.
I agree.

You can't just count the years. Looking at how long Archie stayed at the top despite all his fights and all his great opponents... And that in an age with inferior living conditions and health care compared to today. A marvel really. Moore probably doesn't get the recognition as the phenom he was..
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:47 PM   #22
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

You can make a case for other fighters. I think longevity over fight number and number of elite opponents matters a hell of a lot if you want to make a case against him. If you think about it in that way, you can say that some supposedly anti-longevity style fighters like Greb and Armstrong are more impressive in longevity without the actual age being the focal point. But, ultimately, Hopkins' record-breaking will probably see him end up the number one longevity master when me and everyone here making the point about opposition and such just die off. And that stinks but that's what's going to happen. I know. I have crystal *****.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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You can make a case for other fighters. I think longevity over fight number and number of elite opponents matters a hell of a lot if you want to make a case against him. If you think about it in that way, you can say that some supposedly anti-longevity style fighters like Greb and Armstrong are more impressive in longevity without the actual age being the focal point. But, ultimately, Hopkins' record-breaking will probably see him end up the number one longevity master when me and everyone here making the point about opposition and such just die off. And that stinks but that's what's going to happen. I know. I have crystal *****.
damn, you're lucky. i got 3 and none of em are crystal.

i like your point and there's something that just doesn't impress me on an all time great standpoint for hopkins. beating pavlik and tarver i loved...beating winky meant **** and pascal was a moron. he gets outhustled by a guy like dawson and imo, twice by taylor. i scored the calzaghe fight for joe, one of my least favourite fighters ever.

hopkins is good but he damn well needs a moron, someone shot or someone small in front of him most nights to look good.

the more i read on ole archie the better he sounds in this regard
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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damn, you're lucky. i got 3 and none of em are crystal.

i like your point and there's something that just doesn't impress me on an all time great standpoint for hopkins.d
How about setting the record for title defenses ? Surely thats an all time thing.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:58 PM   #25
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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How about setting the record for title defenses ? Surely thats an all time thing.
he set the record for a titlest yeah, not for unified. and it's who he beat that counts.

don't get me wrong, hopkins is an all time great fighter. but the depth of his resume counts against him and when i watch him now i just see a very smart spoiler.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:03 PM   #26
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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he set the record for a titlest yeah, not for unified. and it's who he beat that counts.

don't get me wrong, hopkins is an all time great fighter. but the depth of his resume counts against him and when i watch him now i just see a very smart spoiler.
**** unified. King kept those belts away as best he could. Hopkins was the best MW for years even before the tourney started.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:16 PM   #27
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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**** unified. King kept those belts away as best he could. Hopkins was the best MW for years even before the tourney started.
totally agreed...but i can't say he set a record as middleweight champion if he wasn't THE middleweight champion. it ain't hopkins fault but it's way the way it is.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:54 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

My opinion is that Archie Moore was better.He was knockout artist even in his late 40s.I watched fight with Gulio Rinaldi and he looked impressive;no holding,fighting,fast and explosive.He was like 25 years old.Hopkins is master,also great fighter in his late 40s but Archie Moore was greater.
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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totally agreed...but i can't say he set a record as middleweight champion if he wasn't THE middleweight champion. it ain't hopkins fault but it's way the way it is.
So who was THE MW champ in your eyes?
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: Is Hopkins the greatest fighter in terms of longevity?

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So who was THE MW champ in your eyes?
i don't know the era well enough to say. but in restrospect i'd say he was best in the division but not THE champ. there was no THE champ. in such a weak time for the division, he should be expected to clean house
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