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View Poll Results: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler
Hagler by KO 2 10.00%
Hagler on points 11 55.00%
Hopkins by KO 0 0%
Hopkins on points 7 35.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-14-2013, 07:37 AM   #121
Waynegrade
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by Goyourownway View Post
One glaring problem with this theory: Hagler was shit at cutting the ring off.


Very much the Ben Tackie of his era in that regard.
Wow ! Ben Tackie ?? You need to go watch more films. Watch some of his fights before he won the title, or his systematic dismantling of Sibson, Scypion and Obel. Or the boxing lesson he gave Briscoe after he got butted and sustained a potentially fight ending cut.You need to actually watch and see what a good boxer,with lateral movement Hagler was when needed. Plodding never a champ Ben Tackie ???Basically uncrowned champ for two years, champ for 7, and he`s the Ben Tackie of his era ? Thanks for the education
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:51 AM   #122
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by the cobra View Post
Whether it is down mostly to raw talent or learned skill really shouldn't matter. If one guy's better, then he's better, and that's that. Roy was better than Hopkins, definitely. Roys resume is certainly on the same level. Roy was even more dominant than Hopkins during his prime run. All B-Hop really has over him is longevity, and freaky as it may be, I don't think that's enough to overcome everything else (and you should all know how badly I wish that it was enough).
Roy looks more dominant over inferior competition mate.

Hopkins labours to a UD against a guy like Easterman, and Jones knocks me out in 12 seconds (only because I elect to stick and move ) who has the better win?


Hopkins has longevity, and more importantly, resume over RJJ.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:16 AM   #123
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
Roy looks more dominant over inferior competition mate.

Hopkins labours to a UD against a guy like Easterman, and Jones knocks me out in 12 seconds (only because I elect to stick and move ) who has the better win?


Hopkins has longevity, and more importantly, resume over RJJ.
Man for man do you think its really superior?

or are you counting Roy's late losses more than I would?
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:48 AM   #124
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

Roy Jones was so extremely good in his prime that even past boxers said he might actually be superior ability wise.
That's all.

Hopkins is greater, RJJ was better.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:02 AM   #125
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by Waynegrade View Post
PowerPuncher, you still see Jones over Hopkins, prime for prime as well ? I still see it that way. the thing with Hopkins is, that he has been still taking names over all these years. So he really makes a case for himself climbing the ATG ladder just because he`s still here and he`s still doing it. It is an amazing run, without a doubt !
Hopkins isn't in Prime Jones class, that's not a knock on Hopkins, it's just Jones was so super human. Hopkins is an ATG and arguably even top10, Jones dominated him with 1 hand and Hopkins never really fancied the fight again.

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Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
Roy looks more dominant over inferior competition mate.

Hopkins labours to a UD against a guy like Easterman, and Jones knocks me out in 12 seconds (only because I elect to stick and move ) who has the better win?


Hopkins has longevity, and more importantly, resume over RJJ.
Jones has the most underrated competition of all time, he beat something like 20 world champions and beat more Ring ranked opponents than anyone during the time (something like 30).

Some of those guys Jones was knocking out in 1 or 2 rounds were going 12 rounds with Toney, Benn, Julian Jackson

Eastman wouldn't make a top20 in Jones wins.

Jones Competition > Hopkins Competition in the period BY FAR. Jones has the better top5 and better top 10 wins.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:12 AM   #126
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

I agree that Roy's competition is being underated in this thread. I wonder if there is a single fighter that Hopkins beat that would tax Ruiz, Toney or Hopkins himself? Then you got Tarver, Hill, Griffin and all that there.
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:40 AM   #127
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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I agree that Roy's competition is being underated in this thread. I wonder if there is a single fighter that Hopkins beat that would tax Ruiz, Toney or Hopkins himself? Then you got Tarver, Hill, Griffin and all that there.
agreed. roy's resume is tough to gauge but i feel it's the case it's undervalued by the ease with which he dominated

1)hopkins-easy UD, went on to be hall of famer

2)James Toney-top 168 fighter, p4p number 1, destroyed from bell to bell (**** the weight loss, his own fault)

3)Antonio Tarver-clear but close UD, very good light heavyweight

4)John Ruiz-WAY underrated now. Ruiz would have made a much uglier fight with lewis, non controversial win over holyfield, beat many of the top names in his era....NO ONE but Tua had such an easy night with Ruiz. This marks a difference from hopkins for me. Jones had no business dominating but he did

5)Reggie Johnson-very good light heavy, COMPLETELY dominated and subsequently written off

6)Griffin-Eddie Futch trained Light heavy, very very good in his prime. One of the best first round KOs in history

7)Virgil Hill-One of the top light heavies of his era, past prime for sure, one of the best body shots ever thrown

this is just the top wins but there are plenty of contenders (and not cops or mail men) out there as well. the more I read jones' resume and watch how PAINFULLY dominant he was, the closer he gets to hopkins in that regard. it was said (SJS i think...) that Jones dominated lesser competition than hopkins

if that's true, it ain't by much. and in his prime, he was pretty much untouchble. i'd rather dominate a reggie johnson with some knockdowns thrown in than have an ugly mess with howard eastman any day of the week
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Old 03-14-2013, 10:57 AM   #128
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Hopkins isn't in Prime Jones class, that's not a knock on Hopkins, it's just Jones was so super human. Hopkins is an ATG and arguably even top10, Jones dominated him with 1 hand and Hopkins never really fancied the fight again.



Jones has the most underrated competition of all time, he beat something like 20 world champions and beat more Ring ranked opponents than anyone during the time (something like 30).

Some of those guys Jones was knocking out in 1 or 2 rounds were going 12 rounds with Toney, Benn, Julian Jackson

Eastman wouldn't make a top20 in Jones wins.

Jones Competition > Hopkins Competition in the period BY FAR. Jones has the better top5 and better top 10 wins.
Good points. prime Jones dominated ! It`s easy to look at post Ruiz RJJ and find issues. I actually feel that going up to heavy and then trying to drop down and still compete at 175 was too much to ask at given his age and # of fights. Dropping down, Roy lost that special something. He wasn`t an `untouchable` anymore. But prime RJJ was incredible !!
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:01 AM   #129
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

I don`t how this thread took off in this direction, but ... Honestly, could we see anyone beating absolute prime 160-165 Roy Jones ? I like him over Hagler, Monzon and I think SRR would have had problems with him as well. It wasn`t just RJJ`s superhuman speed, he could crack at that weight. He could hurt you with one shot, and blister you with blinding speed and get you out. That Jones fought with a nasty mental edge, Take a close look at what a fired up RJJ looks like in his return with Griffin...
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:10 PM   #130
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

Jones.................................Hopkins

Toney.................................?
Hopkins...............................Calzaghe (arguably)
Tarver.................................Tarver
Griffin..................................Wright
Ruiz.....................................Trinidad
Hill.......................................Taylor (arguably)
Johnson...............................DLH
McCallum.............................Pavlik
Woods.................................Echols
Gonzalez.............................Pascal
Harding................................Allen
Lucas...................................Holmes
Del Valle...............................Eastman
Sosa....................................Mercado
Malinga................................Vanderpool
Grant...................................Johnson

Where's Hopkins' superior resume again?

He'd need to beat more Clouds than there are in the sky on an autumn day to surpass Jones.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:13 PM   #131
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Hopkins isn't in Prime Jones class, that's not a knock on Hopkins, it's just Jones was so super human. Hopkins is an ATG and arguably even top10, Jones dominated him with 1 hand and Hopkins never really fancied the fight again.



Jones has the most underrated competition of all time, he beat something like 20 world champions and beat more Ring ranked opponents than anyone during the time (something like 30).

Some of those guys Jones was knocking out in 1 or 2 rounds were going 12 rounds with Toney, Benn, Julian Jackson

Eastman wouldn't make a top20 in Jones wins.

Jones Competition > Hopkins Competition in the period BY FAR. Jones has the better top5 and better top 10 wins.
I know about the champions, 18, but are you sure about vs top 10 opposition. Because 30 guys beat is rarefied air indeed.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:24 PM   #132
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by Bogotazo View Post
I have to disagree and say that RJJ's footwork, balance, knowledge of ring generalship, counter-punching mechanics, punching form, parrying ability, directionality of head movement, were all fundamentally sound.
In general he doesn't have the basic fundamentals that Hopkins does.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:31 PM   #133
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by Waynegrade View Post
and he`s the Ben Tackie of his era ?


At cutting the ring off? Absolutely.The Hearns fight, in many regards, was an absolute fluke.Hearns fought a ridiculously stupid fight and really made Hagler look a hell of a lot more convincing as a pressure fighter than he actually was.




I'm a huge Mah-vin Hagler fan, butt fakts are faxts.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:50 PM   #134
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
Roy looks more dominant over inferior competition mate.

Hopkins labours to a UD against a guy like Easterman, and Jones knocks me out in 12 seconds (only because I elect to stick and move ) who has the better win?


Hopkins has longevity, and more importantly, resume over RJJ.
I wouldn't give him resume, which is a point that others have backed up since.

I think he absolutely needs the clear edge in resume to outrank Roy, and I don't think he has it. I'd say that they are close enough though, and that Hopkins is still good enough, that he could possibly end up with that clear edge. What would, say, a win over Froch at this stage do?
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:51 PM   #135
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Marvin Hagler.

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist View Post
He'd need to beat more Clouds than there are in the sky on an autumn day to surpass Jones.
Right or wrong, nicely done.
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