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Old 03-13-2013, 09:56 PM   #76
PityTheFool
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
It doesn`t take much for him to get going to be fair, but that`s not what I`m doing. Some guys see what they want to see, especially if its backed up by biased commentators, I`m just here to enlighten them.
I respect you as a poster Bill but that is one of the most self defeating posts I've seen from you.

The 116-112 is not unreasonable for the third fight.I remember after discussing it with you I had another swatch and found my self actually trying to score for Morales after our discussion as I thought I may have just been too biased in my scoring.
Best I could do for Morales was 113-115.Wish I could remember where I put my old notepad for this sort of thing now.

You're as biased as I am mate,and that's fine as long as you acknowledge it.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:33 AM   #77
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

I probably would..but it would have been nice to see a 4th fight.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:52 AM   #78
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
1. Barrera
2. Morales
3. Barrera
4. Morales
5. Barrera
6. Barrera
7. Morales
8. Morales
9. Barrera
10. Barrera
11. Morales
12. Morales

Round 1, not much happened but Morales was too overconfident & allowed Barrera to land more punches to take the round.

Round 2 was shaping up to be a very strong round for Morales then he gets his nose broke by the best punch of the fight, an uppercut by Barrera, it was still a Morales round regardless but terrible punch to get caught by.

Rounds 3 & 4 were the hardest to score IMO. Back & forth, MAB edged 3 & EM edged 4, both could have been even rounds.

Barrera`s two best rounds were 5 & 6... round 6 was the clearest round of the fight & it was Barrera`s, still only a 10-9 though.

Morales two best rounds were 7 & 8, he controlled the pace nicely from distance, his biggest mistake was taking his foot off the gas in the next two rounds allowing Barrera to take the fairly easy paced rounds without having to exert himself too much.

Rounds 9 & 10 were `save myself for a big finish & try do enough to steal` type rounds, Barrera took those on my card.

11 & 12 were close rounds, very action packed rounds (especially the 11th) that were edged by Morales, he dug them out, too little too late obviously.

My card read 6-6, if anyone deserved the fight it was Barrera though, I think Morales underestimated how much MAB had left, personally.

Ps. I thought round 11 was the second best round of the entire trilogy, second only to round 5 of the first fight.


Great fight, better than fight 2, not as good as fight 1 though.

We disagree on the 4th and the 12th, two notably close rounds. I can't give them to Erik; He does nothing to dictate the fight, he misses a lot, and he gets slammed with big shots. But your card, 114-114, is perfectly reasonably if you give Morales the benefit of the doubt in these 2 rounds, and its not a biased thing to do, because you give Barrera the 9th. We both agree Morales gave it away over the first half, almost sleepwalking his way through as Barrera simply lights him up with left hands. I think he needs more than one good round in the first 6 to have a decent argument for the fight, or for even a draw.

But my 116-112 card is also perfectly reasonable. A majority decision is a good verdict.

I have the first fight 115-112 Barrera, the second fight(as of this evening, my most recent viewing of it) 115-113 Morales, and the third 116-112.

Great trilogy, but I think Barrera got the better of it relatively clearly, because he is Morales' stylistic nemesis; A great boxer-puncher with tremendous power in the left hand. Morales' less than world class defense is shown up over all 3 as Barrera lands so many huge, showy punches, knocking his head all around and busting his face up. Barrera's self contained style of blocking and slipping serves him, too, as Morales can't establish his jab in any fight but the first half of the second, and his jab is really a key part of his offense, he noticeably struggles without it.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:45 PM   #79
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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Originally Posted by PityTheFool View Post
I respect you as a poster Bill but that is one of the most self defeating posts I've seen from you.

The 116-112 is not unreasonable for the third fight.I remember after discussing it with you I had another swatch and found my self actually trying to score for Morales after our discussion as I thought I may have just been too biased in my scoring.
Best I could do for Morales was 113-115.Wish I could remember where I put my old notepad for this sort of thing now.

You're as biased as I am mate,and that's fine as long as you acknowledge it.
I`m biased toward Morales but it doesn`t effect my ability to score a fight fairly, No way Barrera won that fight 8-4, that`s blasphemy.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:12 PM   #80
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
I`m biased toward Morales but it doesn`t effect my ability to score a fight fairly, No way Barrera won that fight 8-4, that`s blasphemy.
Scoring the fight with the sound off.

Oh, how I've dreamt of seeing Canzoneri-Chocolate with sound.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:13 PM   #81
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
We disagree on the 4th and the 12th, two notably close rounds. I can't give them to Erik; He does nothing to dictate the fight, he misses a lot, and he gets slammed with big shots. But your card, 114-114, is perfectly reasonably if you give Morales the benefit of the doubt in these 2 rounds, and its not a biased thing to do, because you give Barrera the 9th. We both agree Morales gave it away over the first half, almost sleepwalking his way through as Barrera simply lights him up with left hands. I think he needs more than one good round in the first 6 to have a decent argument for the fight, or for even a draw.

But my 116-112 card is also perfectly reasonable. A majority decision is a good verdict.

I have the first fight 115-112 Barrera, the second fight(as of this evening, my most recent viewing of it) 115-113 Morales, and the third 116-112.

Great trilogy, but I think Barrera got the better of it relatively clearly, because he is Morales' stylistic nemesis; A great boxer-puncher with tremendous power in the left hand. Morales' less than world class defense is shown up over all 3 as Barrera lands so many huge, showy punches, knocking his head all around and busting his face up. Barrera's self contained style of blocking and slipping serves him, too, as Morales can't establish his jab in any fight but the first half of the second, and his jab is really a key part of his offense, he noticeably struggles without it.
I agree that Barrera caught Morales with the more spectacular bursts of punches for the most part of the trilogy, and that was due to Morales disregard (rather than inability) for defence, but Morales always came back usually throwing and landing more than Barrera.

The first fight was a 50/50 fight if there ever was one, nobody lost that fight, a draw would have been the best result, the KD in round 12 was bullshit though & I refuse to acknowledge it in my scoring.

Fight 2 was a clear win for Morales, he frustrated Barrera that night, Barrera knows he lost, his corner knows he lost, he was given the decision to set up a rubber match, its that simple... and Morales was denied a legit KD in round 7 via body punch, I don`t acknowledge it in my scoring but Morales didn`t need it on my card anyway.

Fight 3 has been covered already, Morales was too overconfident & took too long to get into the fight, I scored a draw due to a big second half of the fight effort by EM but if anyone edged it then it was Barrera, he took the clearest round of the fight (round 6) & had Morales playing catch up the entire way so he deserves more credit IMO.

All in all I don`t think Marco proved himself a superior H2H fighter than Morales, I think Morales won more rounds but as an entirety I`d say they broke even, that`s the fairest way to call this rivalry IMO.... & I think Morales has had the better career outside of their trilogy so that`s why I rank him ahead of Barrera.

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Old 03-14-2013, 03:50 PM   #82
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

I watched all three fights without sound and without bias and i had Marco Antonio Barrera winning by knockout three times, gotta tell ya watchin it without sound really made a difference.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:59 PM   #83
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

See, I think the exact opposite: Barrera outfought him, by and large, and I thought he won quite a few more rounds when you total the trilogy up.

Suppose that is what makes them great fights, plenty in there to disagree on.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:13 PM   #84
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

Barrera did the higher quality work, especially in the third fight. He looked the better operator.

Anyone who can't see that is a ****ing retard.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:18 PM   #85
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

Morales fight II round 10 was the best either of those men gave, IMO.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:26 PM   #86
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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Morales fight II round 10 was the best either of those men gave, IMO.
Round 5 in the first fight, round 10 in the second, round 11 and 12 in the third, all amazing, gritty rounds. So many punches thrown and taken, lots of courage and hunger on display.

I'm glad Marquez ultimately got to have exchanges like that with a rival in Pacquiao. It flat out boosts your legacy; Nothing shows true ability like meeting your match in a skilled, determined adversary.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:08 PM   #87
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Morales fight II round 10 was the best either of those men gave, IMO.
You could be right, Morales completely outboxed Marco in that round, probably his clearest round of the trilogy.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:12 PM   #88
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Round 5 in the first fight, round 10 in the second, round 11 and 12 in the third, all amazing, gritty rounds. So many punches thrown and taken, lots of courage and hunger on display.

I'm glad Marquez ultimately got to have exchanges like that with a rival in Pacquiao. It flat out boosts your legacy; Nothing shows true ability like meeting your match in a skilled, determined adversary.
I think McGrain meant round 10 of fight 2 was the best round by a either fighter as in clearest won... I could be wrong there but I don`t think so because round 12 was probably the most action packed of fight 2, largely due to Barrera needing a knock out (or so we thought)
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:17 PM   #89
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Barrera did the higher quality work, especially in the third fight. He looked the better operator.

Anyone who can't see that is a ****ing retard.
He looked the better operator in stages, not outright. Morales flat out frustrated Barrera in the second fight when he used the jab & footwork, that fight more than anything that happened in the 1st or 3rd fights showed Erik Morales as the superior boxing operator, at least from distance.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:23 PM   #90
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Default Re: A question for those that rank Barrera over Morales.....

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He looked the better operator in stages, not outright. Morales flat out frustrated Barrera in the second fight when he used the jab & footwork, that fight more than anything that happened in the 1st or 3rd fights showed Erik Morales as the superior boxing operator, at least from distance.
And the first and third fights showed that as soon as that range lapsed, Barrera was superior, as in those instances, he bludgeoned the shit out of Morales and beat him up.

It's a great trilogy for reasons like that. Morales had his advantages, Barrera had his, and we got to watch them trade them for 36 rounds, and even spin it on its head. There were rounds Barrera outboxed Morales behind the jab, and rounds where Morales outfought Barrera in the trenches at mid-range.
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