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Old 03-16-2013, 04:47 PM   #46
Seamus
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

[quote=mcvey;14965729]
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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Williard? You dont really believe this do you S?
I said I thought he WOULD crack the top 30. I see him along the lines of Fury, maybe not as good. It's hard to tell with Willard because he started so late, didn't fight too often, for all intents and purposes retired after getting the belt... and he never really liked boxing. That said, he was strong hell, powerful and resilient.

However, one more caveat, the Willard who showed up in Toledo was overconfident, old and under-trained. He was not the Willard of Havana.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:09 PM   #47
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

[quote=Seamus;14965954]
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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post

I said I thought he WOULD crack the top 30. I see him along the lines of Fury, maybe not as good. It's hard to tell with Willard because he started so late, didn't fight too often, for all intents and purposes retired after getting the belt... and he never really liked boxing. That said, he was strong hell, powerful and resilient.

However, one more caveat, the Willard who showed up in Toledo was overconfident, old and under-trained. He was not the Willard of Havana.
Entirely reasonable post, with which I have no diifficulty agreeing with.
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:11 PM   #48
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

[quote=janitor;14965173]
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This is the worst kind of personal agenda driven speculation.

Lets deal with some cold hard facts here:

Ruddock never stopped a world class heavyweight inside three rounds.

Sanders beat one world class fighter inside three rounds, but he only beat one world class fighter full stop.

Tua never stopped a world class fighter inside three rounds.

Bruno beat one world class fighter inside three rounds but usualy lost when he stepped up.

Morrison never beat a world class fighter inside three rounds.

Haye never beat a world class fighter inside three rounds.

Williams never beat a world class fighter full stop.

Lets get real here, you would never dare to pick any of these guys to replicate Dempsey's feat, if there was any prospect of your prediction being tested.
Do you not follow boxing because your simply untruths

Tua stopped Moorer and Ruiz both in a round.

Williams KO'd Meehan in 1 who deserved a WBO title against Brewster.

Rudduck had chilling power ko'ing multiple ex champions, not inside 3 rounds no, but he certainly could

Sanders stopping Wlad is a far bigger ask than stopping a primitive slow . HE also stopped numerous gatekeepers like Sprott in 1, Bert Cooper, Al Cole and Czyz. So that's 3 world champions

Haye ko'd a Euro champ in 1, and Enzo Mac in 2

****ey and Shavers are another 2 who would also KO Willard
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Old 03-16-2013, 05:31 PM   #49
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

[quote]
[quote=PowerPuncher;14966077]
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Originally Posted by janitor View Post

Do you not follow boxing because your simply untruths

Tua stopped Moorer and Ruiz both in a round.
I don't think that either Ruiz or Tua were world class when they fought. This fight was more important for who they would later become.

I will give you Moorer on reflection.

It should be noted however that Moorer was neither a big heavyweight nor a durable heavyweight, while Willard was.

Quote:
Williams KO'd Meehan in 1 who deserved a WBO title against Brewster.
It was years before Meehans run at world level, in as much as he ever had one.

Quote:
Rudduck had chilling power ko'ing multiple ex champions, not inside 3 rounds no, but he certainly could
The point I am trying to get across, is that it is relativley rare for a genuinely world class fighter to get iced in the first three rounds, let alone a big durable one.

Quote:
Sanders stopping Wlad is a far bigger ask than stopping a primitive slow . HE also stopped numerous gatekeepers like Sprott in 1, Bert Cooper, Al Cole and Czyz. So that's 3 world champions
The problem with Sanders, is that he is a guy with one realy good win.

A prety incredible one in hindsight, but not something he was ever able to repeat against another world class fighter.

Quote:
Haye ko'd a Euro champ in 1, and Enzo Mac in 2
Hardly a basis for thinking that he would do the same to a much bigger lineal champion with an all time chin.

Quote:
****ey and Shavers are another 2 who would also KO Willard
****ey never beat anybody world class. I se no reason to think he would beat Willard.

Shavers is the name that I conspicuously left out, because he alone of the men you listed, has form for doing this sort of thing at world level. Even in his case it is a prety long shot.
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:17 PM   #50
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

Obviously none of you learned anything from my Willard is Fast! thread
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Old 03-16-2013, 06:43 PM   #51
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

According to boxrec, the number 30 fighter in the world is Deontay the Bronze Bull Wilder.

A modern sized Superheavyweight with modern sized skills and undefeated to beat. His size is similar to that of Jess Willard. And here is a video from one of his last fights that earned him this top 30 fight. It was a two round demolition against Damon McCreary who is a skilled super middleweight (like many who Willard faced) but who was able to use modern supplements to bulk up to heavyweight.
This gives a good idea of what some of Willards opponents could have done and looked like with theaid of modern nutrition and training. Being fare though, i think Willard might have still been able to beat this guy and sneak into the top 30.

All jokes aside, Wilder actually looks pretty good, i might look a bit more into him. But one has to wonder whether McCreary would even be a professional fighter at this stage of his career, in Willards time. Unbelievable to consider that he is described in this video as being a promising Supermiddleweight. I would bet serious money on John L Sullivan (who by the way should definitely be in the argument in this thread and is probably the best proven and outside of possibly Tyson and Foreman, quite comfortably the best chance of turning the trick) to demolish McCreary in 1 round.

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Last edited by Boilermaker; 03-16-2013 at 07:02 PM. Reason: forgot to link video
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:01 PM   #52
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

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and here is Deontay Wilder against Damon Reed which is another demolition within 4 rounds.

Reed had just been the distance with Toney and lasted more than 4 rounds with Rahman, in his last two fights. He had been previously stopped within 4 rounds by Monte barrett and Herbie hide. This seems to be the type of guy that modern world class opponents who are big hitters are capable of stopping (50-50 or less).

Interestingly, he fought in one heavyweight vs light heavyweight fight against throwback fighter Reggie strickland. The light heavyweight Reggie lasted the six round journey but lost a decision.

Call me crazy, but i think Willard looks better than Reed, and i think it fair to say that there is no way that Willard would be stopped in the same manner as Reed was.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:15 PM   #53
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

[quote=Seamus;14965954]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post

I said I thought he WOULD crack the top 30. I see him along the lines of Fury, maybe not as good. It's hard to tell with Willard because he started so late, didn't fight too often, for all intents and purposes retired after getting the belt... and he never really liked boxing. That said, he was strong hell, powerful and resilient.

However, one more caveat, the Willard who showed up in Toledo was overconfident, old and under-trained. He was not the Willard of Havana.
Fury actually knows how to box and has some skills. Willard is nowhere near his skill level. If you took Willard from his day and put him in with today's fighters, he'd be getting thrashed and KO'd by club fighters no one has even heard of. And Dempsey wouldn't be far behind.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:18 PM   #54
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

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For those, (if any) interested there is deontay against a former light heavyweight WBO challenger and again he has the quick KO win. He is really clowning around. but other than that he seems to paw with the jab quite a bit, like Willard. Outside of Willards proven chin and ability against actual top level and world class opponents, there are some pretty decent comparisons. Though i dare say, if Deontay proves his chin to be like willards and can beat the level of guys willard does, he will be rated no 1 as opposed to number 30.

And again, for what it is worth, Deontay seemed to think he went pretty good in his "exhibition fight" (sparring) with Wladimir Klitchsko and does seem like he might become a shot at Klitchsko. I wonder whether Willard would be similarly confident and be able to take Wlad's punches like Deontay sounds like he did?

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Old 03-16-2013, 07:29 PM   #55
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

[quote=rusak;14966758]
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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Fury actually knows how to box and has some skills. Willard is nowhere near his skill level. If you took Willard from his day and put him in with today's fighters, he'd be getting thrashed and KO'd by club fighters no one has even heard of. And Dempsey wouldn't be far behind.
It never hurts to think for five seconds before you publish a post.

This will give you time to ****yse what you have written, and see if there are major logical flaws in it.
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:49 PM   #56
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

[quote=janitor;14966826]
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Originally Posted by rusak View Post

It never hurts to think for five seconds before you publish a post.

This will give you time to ****yse what you have written, and see if there are major logical flaws in it.
I would like to know if Damon McCreary is one of the club fighters that Seamus is talking about.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:37 PM   #57
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

edit

Last edited by John Galt; 03-28-2014 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:50 PM   #58
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

Mike Tyson, George Foreman, and Sonny Liston come to mind. Possibly Joe Frazier or Joe Louis of the champions. Of the non-champions, the ones I would guess could seal the deal in under 3 rounds would be Max Baer, Buddy Baer, Earnie Shavers, and possibly David Tua based on their punching power and record of early round knockouts.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:07 PM   #59
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

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Not from what I've seen. O'Halloran looks like SRR compared to Willard.
I can see the Robinson O'Hallaran comparison.

They both were unstoppable forces, impervious to punishment, with just the one weakness which lead ultimately to the their KO downfall against their biggest challengers. Robinson had the heat against Maxim and O Halloran had the Kriptonite against Superman. We all know that Muhammed Ali holds a recorded victory over Superman.

And when he won the world title, Jess Willard was considered a super man of his own sorts. I think Jess Manages to beat both Sugar Ray Robinson and O Hallaran. Given that it is very unusual for the copy to beat its predecessor (ie Sugar Ray Leonard will never beat Sugar Ray Robinson etc) I think Willard is a safe bet against superman but falls short against Ali.

Jack Dempsey on the other hand we all know from Reading the Dempsey Chronicles, was turned into a robot from the future and ended up beating the invincible robots and winning the world title. He might just best Superman and Muhammed Ali, for all we know.
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Old 03-16-2013, 09:11 PM   #60
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Default Re: Who else could have finished Willard like Dempsey ?

[quote=janitor;14966826]
Quote:
Originally Posted by rusak View Post

It never hurts to think for five seconds before you publish a post.

This will give you time to ****yse what you have written, and see if there are major logical flaws in it.
You claim that Willard had an all-time chin. How did he prove that against a bunch of bum cruisers and light heavies? Willard was getting whipped by light heavies in his day. I wouldn't bet on him against Jean Pascal today.
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