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Old 04-01-2013, 11:01 PM   #61
DaveK
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Ali was definitely beatable.
Holmes
Tyson
Frazier
Louis
Lewis
Wlad


Tyson

Holmes
Ali
Foreman
Lewis
Evan
Wlad
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:07 AM   #62
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
Ali was definitely beatable.
Holmes
Tyson
Frazier
Louis
Lewis
Wlad


Tyson

Holmes
Ali
Foreman
Lewis
Evan
Wlad
Its been said that Frazier wouldnt have stood a chance against Ali pre layoff..And you and your ****in Wlad..Do you really believe he would have beat a prime Ali.!?...Cmon Dave Ali would kill that man.

And Foreman is kinda iffy beating a prime Tyson....But you need to replace Wlad with Holmes against Ali.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:07 AM   #63
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Tyson
-----------
Prime Lewis
Prime Ali
Prime Holyfield
Prime Mercer (weird choice I know, I would have liked to see it though)


Not gonna name a 5th.



Ali
-----
Prime Lewis
Prime Wlad
Prime Frazier
Prime Tyson


Not gonna name a 5th



Those are not names of people Id favor over them, just names of the most competitive matchups I personally feel there would be for those two.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:08 AM   #64
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuchulain View Post
For each bout, both fighters at their best and no serious mistakes:

Prime Ali (1967)

Nobody


Prime Tyson (1988/89)

Foreman
Liston
Ali
Maybe Louis
Maybe Marciano

Very well said my man!.......NOBODY!
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:09 AM   #65
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

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Originally Posted by Rex Tickard View Post
Who didn't?

Good point!
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Old 04-02-2013, 10:48 AM   #66
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Muhammad Ali


Jack Johnson: Stronger, mentally tougher, and rougher. I can't prove it but I think he is smart enough to deal with the movement of Ali and find holes in Ali's defense. He has a chance.

Jack Dempsey: He would have been a faster, meaner, harder hitting version of Joe Frazier. He has the most likely chance in my mind.

Joe Louis: His hand speed an unpredictable timely could spell trouble for Ali finishing the bout even the best Ali, if tagged by Joe continuosly. And please don't go down like he did in MSG or the fight is over. Louis at his best finishes all comers.

Sonny Liston: This may seem strange but for whatever reason we never got to see Liston go the full distance with Clay. I think that the best Liston has the better displine and power to hurt and finish Clay. Clay's defense of leaning back has alway mystisfied me. How did he get away with it? I think prime Liston can make him pay for this.

George Foreman: To me big George has the skill set and power to hurt Ali bad and finish him. Ali was allowed to lay on the ropes and lean half-way out of the ring which took something away from the power of George. He absolutely had no other choice but to stay there. When he understood that this was a realitively safe place, rather than try to dance around which was absolutely not going to happen George tired himself out. In a ring with a ref that will not let the rope become and advantage to Ali, I think the chance of George landing something hurtful increase.

The Ali that George would be fighting would be Clay and Clay would be fighting George from the Frazier fight. I think that it would be a full fight with plenty of action but I think that if Foreman can consistanly land heavy he can pull the upset.


Mike Tyson


Cassius Clay: Too fast and too smart. too much everything. It will be over by the 7th round. Mike will be taking some serious leather and Clay will be reveling in it. Clay will not see Tyson any different than he viewed Liston. Tyson will pose speed threats but nothing Clay hasn't in some way managed. Clay will be something that will always give Tyson problems. Movement, reach, and toughness.

Joe Louis: This one could be a doozy. The thing is, Louis is better then Mike in every area. The good thing for Mike is that Louis with all of his considerable offense gets caught sometimes. The thing is you can't keep him down, and when he gets up he gets up and puts the pliers to you. Truth...Schmeling and Maricano put him down and out but in the Schmeling fight Louis took enough beating for three men and was beaten down but not destroyed. Maricano was too young and Joe was too old.

Joe from the second Schmeling fight is altogether different. He would be finding openings in Mike and landing hard, hard punches. Mike would resolve to fight back and have success but, it is hard for me to see him taking what he will be taking and walking through it. Joe KO's him.

Sonny Liston: Too much skill and power. Mike will not be able to do anything with him.

Jack Johnson: Mike looked fierce against tomato cans and old men but not all-time greats or men who were up for the challenge. Jack Johnson is up for the challenge an would be able to tie up Mike, Pop shot him and maul him down to ineffectiveness. Mike's mental problems would be the cause for this loss. Mike is much more the puncher and far more skilled. But at the end of the day it is a fight between who is tougher and Johnson is by far is tougher.

Rocky Maricano: I think Rocky has the chin to withstand the early on-slaught which would be very fierce but with his underated defense and unstoppable will to impose his offense I see Mike being hit alot, not liking it but not being able to stop it. I can see a situation like the Holyfield fight. Mike just not being able to curb the skill and firepower of a figher that he is "better" than.
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #67
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLP 6 View Post
Muhammad Ali


Jack Johnson: Stronger, mentally tougher, and rougher. I can't prove it but I think he is smart enough to deal with the movement of Ali and find holes in Ali's defense. He has a chance.

Jack Dempsey: He would have been a faster, meaner, harder hitting version of Joe Frazier. He has the most likely chance in my mind.

Joe Louis: His hand speed an unpredictable timely could spell trouble for Ali finishing the bout even the best Ali, if tagged by Joe continuosly. And please don't go down like he did in MSG or the fight is over. Louis at his best finishes all comers.

Sonny Liston: This may seem strange but for whatever reason we never got to see Liston go the full distance with Clay. I think that the best Liston has the better displine and power to hurt and finish Clay. Clay's defense of leaning back has alway mystisfied me. How did he get away with it? I think prime Liston can make him pay for this.

George Foreman: To me big George has the skill set and power to hurt Ali bad and finish him. Ali was allowed to lay on the ropes and lean half-way out of the ring which took something away from the power of George. He absolutely had no other choice but to stay there. When he understood that this was a realitively safe place, rather than try to dance around which was absolutely not going to happen George tired himself out. In a ring with a ref that will not let the rope become and advantage to Ali, I think the chance of George landing something hurtful increase.

The Ali that George would be fighting would be Clay and Clay would be fighting George from the Frazier fight. I think that it would be a full fight with plenty of action but I think that if Foreman can consistanly land heavy he can pull the upset.


Mike Tyson


Cassius Clay: Too fast and too smart. too much everything. It will be over by the 7th round. Mike will be taking some serious leather and Clay will be reveling in it. Clay will not see Tyson any different than he viewed Liston. Tyson will pose speed threats but nothing Clay hasn't in some way managed. Clay will be something that will always give Tyson problems. Movement, reach, and toughness.

Joe Louis: This one could be a doozy. The thing is, Louis is better then Mike in every area. The good thing for Mike is that Louis with all of his considerable offense gets caught sometimes. The thing is you can't keep him down, and when he gets up he gets up and puts the pliers to you. Truth...Schmeling and Maricano put him down and out but in the Schmeling fight Louis took enough beating for three men and was beaten down but not destroyed. Maricano was too young and Joe was too old.

Joe from the second Schmeling fight is altogether different. He would be finding openings in Mike and landing hard, hard punches. Mike would resolve to fight back and have success but, it is hard for me to see him taking what he will be taking and walking through it. Joe KO's him.

Sonny Liston: Too much skill and power. Mike will not be able to do anything with him.

Jack Johnson: Mike looked fierce against tomato cans and old men but not all-time greats or men who were up for the challenge. Jack Johnson is up for the challenge an would be able to tie up Mike, Pop shot him and maul him down to ineffectiveness. Mike's mental problems would be the cause for this loss. Mike is much more the puncher and far more skilled. But at the end of the day it is a fight between who is tougher and Johnson is by far is tougher.

Rocky Maricano: I think Rocky has the chin to withstand the early on-slaught which would be very fierce but with his underated defense and unstoppable will to impose his offense I see Mike being hit alot, not liking it but not being able to stop it. I can see a situation like the Holyfield fight. Mike just not being able to curb the skill and firepower of a figher that he is "better" than.
Love this list!
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:10 PM   #68
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Ali: Frazier, Norton, Louis, Holmes, Bowe

Tyson: Ali, Holmes, Louis, Holyfield, (Tokyo) Douglas
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:50 PM   #69
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

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Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw View Post
Love this list!
What don't you love, lists wise?
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Old 04-03-2013, 03:39 PM   #70
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

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What don't you love, lists wise?

Well for one...its great to see the Rock on the list
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:00 PM   #71
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Mike Tyson was invincible in his prime, no man could ever beat him.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:38 PM   #72
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

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Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw View Post
Its been said that Frazier wouldnt have stood a chance against Ali pre layoff..And you and your ****in Wlad..Do you really believe he would have beat a prime Ali.!?...Cmon Dave Ali would kill that man.

And Foreman is kinda iffy beating a prime Tyson....But you need to replace Wlad with Holmes against Ali.
I don't think it's out of the question for Wlad to beat Ali. Im obviously going to take Ali in a primer Vs prime match up, but His best two punches may be neutralised by Wlad's jab and straight right. Ali's tendency to lean straight back may also become a problem as 90% of his punches are thrown down the pipe.
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:19 PM   #73
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Did he struggle though? up unti Lewis he beat everyone he fought. In the rematch I had it 7-5, fair to say prime holy fares better than past prime holy.

Even after that he managed to beat the likes of Ruiz, Rahman, Oquendo, Valuev.
He also lost to the likes of Ruiz, Byrd, Larry Donald, James Toney and drew with Ruiz. Throughout his heavyweight stay he's had life and death battles with Alex Stewart, Bert Cooper, struggled with 42 year old Larry Holmes, Bowe, Bowe again, Moorer, Mercer, Bowe again, Bobby Czyz, Vaughn Bean (remember that little diddy?), Lewis, and the others I mentioned above.

The key word is "mightily" struggled. Always in a war. Tyson knocks guys out in less than a minute and their called bums. Holyfield wishes he could dominate an era the way Tyson did in the 80's. Not knocking Holy for it but I highly doubt he's a h2h force in this division.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:19 PM   #74
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

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Originally Posted by xRedx View Post
Mike Tyson was invincible in his prime, no man could ever beat him.
Thats a fact...
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #75
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Default Re: Name 5 HW's that you think coulda beat A prime Tyson and 5 that coulda beat Ali p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbiano View Post
I don't think it's out of the question for Wlad to beat Ali. Im obviously going to take Ali in a primer Vs prime match up, but His best two punches may be neutralised by Wlad's jab and straight right. Ali's tendency to lean straight back may also become a problem as 90% of his punches are thrown down the pipe.
But you still have Ali beating him..
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