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Old 04-01-2013, 12:08 PM   #76
dinovelvet
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

Everything you type up is a circular theroy. Everything.
How had Joe more of a points win than Taylor?
Taylor won by UD. Joe won by SD
You stupid or something.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:09 PM   #77
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

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Originally Posted by bailey View Post
You know how it is with Dino. Hes like the ESB old punch bag and totally useless but out of sympathy is humoured to make him feel he has a place

dino the ESB punch bag, couldn't have put it better myself!
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:09 PM   #78
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey View Post
so Pascal who didnt do anything at SMW and looked terrible in some fights, you suddenly rate above most of Calzaghes comp . Dont forget how Pascal lost to a 46 year old when he went up in weight.
What was Pascals best SMW win? Was it as good as Liles for Mitchell?
Dont duck the questions again
Yes, I also remember how Calzaghe went life and death with a 43yr old. Give me a break. Froch is a better win than Byron Mitchell. Accept it.

Quote:
How am I a *****? I dont duck questions. Thats what you seem to do .
You rated Froch highly and I noted that coming into his fight with Ward he was coming off a Mdec win over an old boiled down SMW journeyman, before that a win over AA coming in off a loss who had no SMW pedigree and then a loss to Kessler coming in off a loss when unwell, yet you have this sudden great rating for Froch.
Now you rate Pascal as a SMW
Hmm...ok lemme ask you again then. When did I "highly rate" the Glen Johnson win?
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #79
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

Just reading Failey's posts ,just comedy gold !!!

He likes to elevate Byron Mitchell as a good win when the man had just lost to Sven Otteke and had a previous loss to the great Bruno Girard.Then in his next 12 fights gets stopped 8 more times ..Yup that's a real solid win


Then IN his only other notable win he faces Charles Brewer who had suffered a few KO losses before facing Joe ..Than this guy says that Froch is no better than Lacy

He also contradicts himself by saying Ward blew his chance by not facing Bute so that would erase any all time great status yet Froch destroys the man but hes not that much better than Lacy Oh this is just too funny !
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:22 PM   #80
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

Not to reroute the conversation (which already did with JC discussion) but do you think Hamed is ATG? Based on YOUR criteria he is not (not ATG win).

I am not saying Ward is ATG. I DO NOT think he is. That may change. He is young and still in the game. But he needs a string of excellent wins or 2 or more truly great wins.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCep View Post
What utter shite.

An All Time Great as in, one of the greatest fighters the sport has ever produced?

Based on wins over Kessler and Froch?

Those two guys are top fighters, but there not exactly 'greats' themselves.

In my opinion, to be an all time great you need serious longevity, a string of top class wins, and most importantly, you need to have beaten great fighters.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:24 PM   #81
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

I have a higher standard for ATG than that. ATG's are few and far between, there are maybe a couple dozen total for me.

I obviously don't rate Joe Cal as anywhere near an ATG, and think Ward has quite a way to go before I label him as one.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:46 PM   #82
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LikeFatherNSon View Post
Yes, I also remember how Calzaghe went life and death with a 43yr old. Give me a break. Froch is a better win than Byron Mitchell. Accept it.
How did Calzaghe go life and death? Many call that fight a bore with Hopkins holding to survive. Whats the relevance?
Do you recall Ward doing the chicken dance and being put over by a journeyman and getting what some felt a lucky decision against D Boone?

Quote:
Hmm...ok lemme ask you again then. When did I "highly rate" the Glen Johnson win
I never said you did. You asked me that question and I pointed to how you rated Froch who was coming into his fight with Ward having just beaten an old boiled down SMW journeyman by Mdec only.
You went on about asking me when you rated Johnson.
See I dont duck questions like you. you still havent answered several questions from a while back.

Now does Froch have a win as good as Mitchell does in beating F Liles?
What SMW champs did Froch beat going in to face Ward?

Do answer and stop being a *****

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial1 View Post
Just reading Failey's posts ,just comedy gold !!!
They are gold as they have you back pedaling throughout
Quote:
He likes to elevate Byron Mitchell as a good win when the man had just lost to Sven Otteke
Did you see that fight?
Do you think Mitchell clearly lost?
It was a close SD.
So with what you just said though about Mitchell coming in off a loss to one of the best SMWs ever, surely you cant rate Wards wins over Kessler as he had lost to Calzaghe previously or his win over Froch as Froch had lost to unwell Kessler coming off a loss and was coming in off a Mdec win over a SMW journeyman who was old and boiled down
Quote:
and had a previous loss to the great Bruno Girard.Then in his next 12 fights gets stopped 8 more times ..Yup that's a real solid win
Girard was a 2 weight champ and I guess you never saw that fight in France judging by the post, but as you are going on this basis, lets not forget that when Girard beat Del Valle, he wasnt put down like Jones. If we are going to be silly like that.
Mitchell only ever lost clearly at SMW to Calzaghe and any loss after wasnt at SMW and was also some years later, which you fail to note. Still once again as you look at it that way it may be that Calzaghe ruined him.
Was Tarver not a good win for Jones as Jones has lost 6 times since that I recall, yeah quality if we look at it YOUR way
Quote:
Then IN his only other notable win he faces Charles Brewer who had suffered a few KO losses before facing Joe ..Than this guy says that Froch is no better than Lacy
What are you waffling on about?
Why do you think Brewer is Calzaghes only notable win when Woodhall was rated higher than Brewer ever was.
Consider Woodhall beat the WBC SMW champ, beat world rated and future WBA champ Branco, beat world rated and former SMW champ Nardiello and beat a future WBC SMW champ. Froch hadnt beaten a still prime former SMW champ or SMW champ going into Ward
Quote:
He also contradicts himself by saying Ward blew his chance by not facing Bute so that would erase any all time great status yet Froch destroys the man but hes not that much better than Lacy Oh this is just too funny !
Whats funny other than your denial.
Did Ward not face Bute?
Bute was an undefeated SMW world champ and Ward didnt want to go near him. It would have been a chance for Ward to prove himself in a test against an undefeated top SMW, and he didnt take it.
You are trying to compare eras. Froch is slower than Lacy, about equal in punching power, is not as busy and active and has slower foot work, and against a fighter that Lacy ruined, Lacy looked better than Froch did overall when they both fought faded Reid.
tell me how you rate Froch so highly when he looked lucky to many against Dirrell and to a few against Johnson and Pascal and how Froch was behind against Taylor lost to unwell Kessler coming off a loss and how Froch going in to his fight with ward hadnt beaten a SMW champ or still world rated former champ.
I do rate Froch and have seen him live, but I dont try and hype him up for Wards or Kesslers career and do keep it real with him
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:01 PM   #83
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

[quote=bailey;15073280]
Quote:





Whats funny other than your denial.
Did Ward not face Bute?
Bute was an undefeated SMW world champ and Ward didnt want to go near him. It would have been a chance for Ward to prove himself in a test against an undefeated top SMW, and he didnt take it.
You are trying to compare eras. Froch is slower than Lacy, about equal in punching power, is not as busy and active and has slower foot work, and against a fighter that Lacy ruined, Lacy looked better than Froch did overall when they both fought faded Reid.
tell me how you rate Froch so highly when he looked lucky to many against Dirrell and to a few against Johnson and Pascal and how Froch was behind against Taylor lost to unwell Kessler coming off a loss and how Froch going in to his fight with ward hadnt beaten a SMW champ or still world rated former champ.
I do rate Froch and have seen him live, but I dont try and hype him up for Wards or Kesslers career and do keep it real with him
First off Froch is 1000 times better than Lacy and more accomplished ..He is also the man that Joe wanted nooooo part of when he was his mandatory and kept calling him out !

You really don't know boxing if you think Lacy is on par with Froch !

Froch is also a 3 x super middleweight champ ! Lacy was a flash in the pan ..Guess you believed more of the US hype on him than some of us did!

And personally Froch got robbed against Kessler but that's my opinion but hey it is what it is !

And on Ward facing Bute ,did he need to at the time when he was facing the likes of Kessler and Froch ?Two guys who were more accomplished than Bute at super middle as opposed to an undefeated BELT HOLDER ! I notice you take allot of stock into fluffy undefeated records ..My denial ,denial of what that he chose to take on tougher challenges ..Yeah he needed Bute !

But funny because I could have swore that after Bute was destroyed by Froch you compared him to Lacy as well ..Wow your contradictions will drown you eventually Failey .
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:04 PM   #84
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey View Post
How did Calzaghe go life and death? Many call that fight a bore with Hopkins holding to survive. Whats the relevance?
Do you recall Ward doing the chicken dance and being put over by a journeyman and getting what some felt a lucky decision against D Boone?

I never said you did. You asked me that question and I pointed to how you rated Froch who was coming into his fight with Ward having just beaten an old boiled down SMW journeyman by Mdec only.
You went on about asking me when you rated Johnson.
See I dont duck questions like you. you still havent answered several questions from a while back.

Now does Froch have a win as good as Mitchell does in beating F Liles?
What SMW champs did Froch beat going in to face Ward?

Do answer and stop being a *****


They are gold as they have you back pedaling throughout
Did you see that fight?
Do you think Mitchell clearly lost?
It was a close SD.
So with what you just said though about Mitchell coming in off a loss to one of the best SMWs ever, surely you cant rate Wards wins over Kessler as he had lost to Calzaghe previously or his win over Froch as Froch had lost to unwell Kessler coming off a loss and was coming in off a Mdec win over a SMW journeyman who was old and boiled down
Girard was a 2 weight champ and I guess you never saw that fight in France judging by the post, but as you are going on this basis, lets not forget that when Girard beat Del Valle, he wasnt put down like Jones. If we are going to be silly like that.
Mitchell only ever lost clearly at SMW to Calzaghe and any loss after wasnt at SMW and was also some years later, which you fail to note. Still once again as you look at it that way it may be that Calzaghe ruined him.
Was Tarver not a good win for Jones as Jones has lost 6 times since that I recall, yeah quality if we look at it YOUR way
What are you waffling on about?
Why do you think Brewer is Calzaghes only notable win when Woodhall was rated higher than Brewer ever was.
Consider Woodhall beat the WBC SMW champ, beat world rated and future WBA champ Branco, beat world rated and former SMW champ Nardiello and beat a future WBC SMW champ. Froch hadnt beaten a still prime former SMW champ or SMW champ going into Ward

Whats funny other than your denial.
Did Ward not face Bute?
Bute was an undefeated SMW world champ and Ward didnt want to go near him. It would have been a chance for Ward to prove himself in a test against an undefeated top SMW, and he didnt take it.
You are trying to compare eras. Froch is slower than Lacy, about equal in punching power, is not as busy and active and has slower foot work, and against a fighter that Lacy ruined, Lacy looked better than Froch did overall when they both fought faded Reid.
tell me how you rate Froch so highly when he looked lucky to many against Dirrell and to a few against Johnson and Pascal and how Froch was behind against Taylor lost to unwell Kessler coming off a loss and how Froch going in to his fight with ward hadnt beaten a SMW champ or still world rated former champ.
I do rate Froch and have seen him live, but I dont try and hype him up for Wards or Kesslers career and do keep it real with him
I get it now. You're a troll. No one else would dare try to hype up Byron Mitchell while putting Carl Froch down.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #85
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperial1 View Post

First off Froch is 1000 times better than Lacy
He may be, but proven how?
When did Lacy look as poor as Froch when defending titles?
Quote:
and more accomplished
I agree I think he is more accomplished, as he has won world titles again after losing them twice before whilst Lacy got ruined, but Frochs best win is Bute and I think prime Lacy would do exactly the same to Bute also when did Froch beat a SMW as good as world rated R Reid? Froch only beat a far more faded version not the one that looked unlucky to Reid and who took Magees 0
Quote:
..He is also the man that Joe wanted nooooo part of when he was his mandatory and kept calling him out !
When Was Froch, Joes mandatory? Must have been a very short time because Froch was Kesslers mandatory but Kessler decided to fight Calzaghe instead of Froch. Calzaghe was looking to go up after Kessler and fight Hopkins. Calzaghe beat Kessler, relinquished the titles and went after Hopkins. Froch at this time was an unknown British champ who had beaten nobody of real note and looked fortunate to some against Adamu.
So Froch was only Calzaghes mandatory right after Calzaghe beat Kessler.
Froch didnt even win a vacant title until after Calzaghe had moved up and had 2 fights in a higher division, which puts it in perspective.
So do you think Kessler is a ducker for fighting Calzaghe rather than unknown British champ Froch?
Quote:
You really don't know boxing if you think Lacy is on par with Froch !
If Froch had ever been signed to face Calzaghe, Calzaghe would have been clear favourite every time at any period.
When Calzaghe signed to fight Lacy, Lacy was the favourite.
Explain that one.
Lacy punches as hard, has faster feet, faster hands and is more active
Quote:
Froch is also a 3 x super middleweight champ ! Lacy was a flash in the pan ..Guess you believed more of the US hype on him than some of us did!
No I bet on Calzaghe. But didnt think he would ruin Lacy.
So Froch, did you think he looked good against Dirrell?
Good against Taylor for 11 rounds?
Good against Johnson an old bolied down SMW who was a SMW journeyman.

Consider that Lacy was KOing Vanderpool who was clearly beating G Johnson who took Froch to a Mdec when old and boiled down.
Work that out for yourself
Quote:
And personally Froch got robbed against Kessler but that's my opinion but hey it is what it is !
Hey if it suits your agenda.
Bet you dont think it was close between Froch and Ward though do you?
The rounds in that were often close and Ward looked badly marked up at the end from old Froch, but I bet you think it was a clear one sided decision like Calzaghes against Lacy.
Quote:
And on Ward facing Bute ,did he need to at the time when he was facing the likes of Kessler and Froch ?Two guys who were more accomplished than Bute at super middle as opposed to an undefeated BELT HOLDER !
Kessler was definately more accomplished but hadnt fought a world class SMW for 3 years when he fought Ward and was unwell and suffering double vision.
As for Froch and Bute I think its a bit of a toss up as to accomplishment -
Bute had beaten a SMW champ
Froch had not beaten a SMW champ

Bute had been a world champ over a year longer

Froch in world title fights was 5-1
Bute was 10-0

Bute had looked better against common opponents than Ward and Froch

Bute had fought as many top 10 SMW opponents

So I think thats a toss up
Quote:
I notice you take allot of stock into fluffy undefeated records ..My denial ,denial of what that he chose to take on tougher challenges ..Yeah he needed Bute
He did. Bute was considered the biggest threat and Ward didnt want to take the challenge.
Tell me this and be truthful
If Ward had of fought undefeated winner of 10 SMW title fights Bute and won, dont you think it would have been Wards biggest win?
I do and think it would have been considered bigger than Froch and Kessler who had been defeated.
You only dont rate Bute after his loss to Froch, before he was Wards biggest threat. Try and deny that all you like but we both know that is correct
Quote:
But funny because I could have swore that after Bute was destroyed by Froch you compared him to Lacy as well ..Wow your contradictions will drown you eventually Failey
I might have done? Cant remember, but that would be natural for people to as they were hyped undefeated SMWchamps who got brutally beaten. The fighters that were willing to take the chance against them deserve the credit. Shame Ward didnt take the chance and has to live off Frochs work

Quote:
Originally Posted by LikeFatherNSon View Post
I get it now. You're a troll. No one else would dare try to hype up Byron Mitchell while putting Carl Froch down.
So when you cant answer any debate that is your answer.
I notice you didnt even try and answer the questions I posed to you. Calling someone a troll because they got pwned. Yeah I had it right with you when I noted you didnt answer the questions.

Once again
Has Froch got any wins as good as Mitchells win over Liles

Man up and try and answer
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:55 PM   #86
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

I would consider him an ATG just yet but all he has to do is keep doing what he's doing and he'll be there with his hardwork.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:12 PM   #87
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey View Post

So when you cant answer any debate that is your answer.
I notice you didnt even try and answer the questions I posed to you. Calling someone a troll because they got pwned. Yeah I had it right with you when I noted you didnt answer the questions.

Once again
Has Froch got any wins as good as Mitchells win over Liles


Man up and try and answer
You wouldn't even understand the answer. See, as a boxing fan, I understand that one win doesn't define a career. Would you rank Juan Manuel Marquez higher than Manny Pacquiao all-time? He has a bigger win than any Manny has. Would you rank Buster Douglas ahead of Lennox Lewis? He's got a single win that's greater than any Lennox had. So when you ask those questions and you don't get an answer, understand why. It's not because you "owned" anyone, it's because you're a f*cking idiot.
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Old 04-01-2013, 04:27 PM   #88
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Default Re: Andre Ward is already an ATG

Froch was NEVER Kessler's mandatory. You got some sort of brain block Bailey?
He won the WBC eliminator after Kessler had signed to fight Calzaghe and he was to become mandatory to the winner who was Joe.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #89
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[quote=bailey;15073630]
Quote:
He may be, but proven how?
When did Lacy look as poor as Froch when defending titles?
I agree I think he is more accomplished, as he has won world titles again after losing them twice before whilst Lacy got ruined, but Frochs best win is Bute and I think prime Lacy would do exactly the same to Bute also when did Froch beat a SMW as good as world rated R Reid? Froch only beat a far more faded version not the one that looked unlucky to Reid and who took Magees 0
When Was Froch, Joes mandatory? Must have been a very short time because Froch was Kesslers mandatory but Kessler decided to fight Calzaghe instead of Froch. Calzaghe was looking to go up after Kessler and fight Hopkins. Calzaghe beat Kessler, relinquished the titles and went after Hopkins. Froch at this time was an unknown British champ who had beaten nobody of real note and looked fortunate to some against Adamu.
So Froch was only Calzaghes mandatory right after Calzaghe beat Kessler.
Froch didnt even win a vacant title until after Calzaghe had moved up and had 2 fights in a higher division, which puts it in perspective.
So do you think Kessler is a ducker for fighting Calzaghe rather than unknown British champ Froch?
If Froch had ever been signed to face Calzaghe, Calzaghe would have been clear favourite every time at any period.
When Calzaghe signed to fight Lacy, Lacy was the favourite.
Explain that one.
Lacy punches as hard, has faster feet, faster hands and is more active
No I bet on Calzaghe. But didnt think he would ruin Lacy.
So Froch, did you think he looked good against Dirrell?
Good against Taylor for 11 rounds?
Good against Johnson an old bolied down SMW who was a SMW journeyman.

Consider that Lacy was KOing Vanderpool who was clearly beating G Johnson who took Froch to a Mdec when old and boiled down.
Work that out for yourself
Hey if it suits your agenda.
Bet you dont think it was close between Froch and Ward though do you?
The rounds in that were often close and Ward looked badly marked up at the end from old Froch, but I bet you think it was a clear one sided decision like Calzaghes against Lacy.

Kessler was definately more accomplished but hadnt fought a world class SMW for 3 years when he fought Ward and was unwell and suffering double vision.
As for Froch and Bute I think its a bit of a toss up as to accomplishment -
Bute had beaten a SMW champ
Froch had not beaten a SMW champ

Bute had been a world champ over a year longer

Froch in world title fights was 5-1
Bute was 10-0

Bute had looked better against common opponents than Ward and Froch

Bute had fought as many top 10 SMW opponents

So I think thats a toss up
He did. Bute was considered the biggest threat and Ward didnt want to take the challenge.
Tell me this and be truthful
If Ward had of fought undefeated winner of 10 SMW title fights Bute and won, dont you think it would have been Wards biggest win?
I do and think it would have been considered bigger than Froch and Kessler who had been defeated.
You only dont rate Bute after his loss to Froch, before he was Wards biggest threat. Try and deny that all you like but we both know that is correct
I might have done? Cant remember, but that would be natural for people to as they were hyped undefeated SMWchamps who got brutally beaten. The fighters that were willing to take the chance against them deserve the credit. Shame Ward didnt take the chance and has to live off Frochs work


So when you cant answer any debate that is your answer.
I notice you didnt even try and answer the questions I posed to you. Calling someone a troll because they got pwned. Yeah I had it right with you when I noted you didnt answer the questions.

Once again
Has Froch got any wins as good as Mitchells win over Liles

Man up and try and answer

Funny you didn't know that Foch became Joes' Mando .Must be that selective memory of yours

Here is the letter !
"The WBC Board of Governors has reviewed the situation concerning your case and the two unfortunate cancellations of the final elimination fights that were scheduled to determine the mandatory contender of the super middleweight division of the WBC.

The WBC has voted unanimously to appoint you as mandatory contender of the division.

We would like to wish you the best of luck and once again congratulate you for your exemplary loyalty to the World [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Council.

Sincere regards,
Jose Sulaiman Ch.
"




And Ward is living off Froch's work How stupid do you sound ,Ward beat Froch before he got his hands on Bute ..And Bute was untested at SMW .Name one solid fighter he beat after winning that belt ? The minute he loses to Froch he was no better than Lacy according to you ..Your flip flopping is all over the place on this !

And if I were you I wouldn't even bring up Glen Johnson ,he's a guy Joe avoided at least 3 times !

And Joe was the favorite over Lacy because he like Bute was untested on the elite level as well .Also if you had watched his fight with Sheika prior to the Calzaghe bout you would know why Joe was favored !
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