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Old 04-01-2013, 11:00 AM   #16
Bummy Davis
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

Frazier beat some punchers that Foreman did not such as Quarry (and took Quarry's punches Better than Shavers or Lyle) Ramos could punch, Bob Foster,Jimmy Ellis had a very good right hand, Bonavena had Ali hurt several times and Frazier took his punches (dropped 2x in first fight but a very green Joe got up to win) Chuvalo,Frazier took many of Ali's best punches better than Foreman,Lyle,...A lot of people take the Frazier of the Foreman fight as a rule of thumb but that Frazier was spent and he got up 6x vs Big George (far from a glass jaw)
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:20 PM   #17
John Galt
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

edit

Last edited by John Galt; 03-28-2014 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

I can see where this is going ...



Anyway, how many fighters would be able to take the punches he took in Manila and NEVER get knocked down?

How many fighters would have gotten up SIX TIMES against Foreman?
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

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Originally Posted by rusak View Post
Jones was a light heavyweight. No way he hit as hard as Lyle, who was a real heavy by modern standards.
Jones wasn't just "a light heavyweight," he weighed 185-190 pounds at his peak, and his KO of Zora Folley was probably about as impressive and meaningful as any KO Lyle ever scored at the top level.
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Old 04-01-2013, 01:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Appropriate response:
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whata hell is that ?
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Old 04-01-2013, 03:58 PM   #21
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

Well, everyone has defended Joe properly here by mentioning those fighters he beat. As for Shavers, Lyle, Liston, it makes no sense.
Joe obviously didn't fight them. I wouldn't bet against Joe just because of the Foreman outcome. I see Frazier beating Lyle and Shavers. If Joe fought Liston in '68, I'd go with Frazier.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:34 AM   #22
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

Doug Jones was a big puncher now? And when was he a heavyweight? He was a 180 pound fighter and he wasn't a big puncher for that weight class. Jerry Quarry was a 190 pound fighter so he wasn't a hard punching heavyweight, Jimmy Ellis was under sized.

Doug Jones Rocking Ali just shows how overrated Ali's chin is. I can't imagine guys like Lennox Lewis who based on you people can't take a punch being hurt by a light heavyweight.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

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Doug Jones was a big puncher now? And when was he a heavyweight? He was a 180 pound fighter and he wasn't a big puncher for that weight class. Jerry Quarry was a 190 pound fighter so he wasn't a hard punching heavyweight, Jimmy Ellis was under sized.

Doug Jones Rocking Ali just shows how overrated Ali's chin is. I can't imagine guys like Lennox Lewis who based on you people can't take a punch being hurt by a light heavyweight.
Shit happens

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In his biography he mentioned that Foreman had him nearly out a few times, and I don't think Foreman landed clean a single time.
Shavers did and couldn't KO Ali....

Ali's best thing was probably his recovery powers, after his facial shape and thick skin that made him hard to bruise or cut.


The biggest problems are the punches you don't see coming, especially faster most often lighter guys are extremely sharp.
This means a modern day lightheavyweight can rock a "legit" hw with a good shot while another heavyweight has to throw the kitchen sink at the guy to even make him walk backwards.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

I can't believe the efforts that some make to discredit Joe Frazier.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

I personally think that frazier would have destroyed shavers
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

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I personally think that frazier would have destroyed shavers
Most likely.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

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Jerry Quarry was a 190 pound fighter so he wasn't a hard punching heavyweight,
Tell Shavers, Lyle and Foster that. They were all well above 200lbs and Jerry hurt all of them.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:31 AM   #28
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

He beat plenty of hard punchers. He did not beat any of the truly ATG heavyweight hitters of his era.

His style did not serve him against Foreman at all; He aggression and patience in the kitchen got him dominated and dispatched twice. This leaves reasonably doubt as to how he'd handle the shots of men like Liston and Shavers.

His two fights post-Ali, this doubt, and his coming off second best to Ali are the only blemishes on his record and legacy. That's the reason he's one of the 10 greatest heavyweights to ever do this. Losing a trilogy to the GOAT of your weight class, having a weak reign as undisputed champion(Forgivable because he was coming off FOTC, the greatest win in heavyweight history, some argue), and being unable to withstand Foreman's two-fisted(What aggressive, come forward hooker with a penchant for bending into uppercuts would last against a peaked George?) are simply thin reasons to criticize a fighter.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: What true big punchers did Frazier beat??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Kemp View Post
Doug Jones was a big puncher now?
He always was, and was always acknowledged as such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Kemp View Post
And when was he a heavyweight? He was a 180 pound fighter and he wasn't a big puncher for that weight class.
He never weighed "180" during his run as a HW contender. Beginning with his win over Folley in '62 and ending with his loss to Kirkman in '67, he weighed between 184 and 207. And he was praised for his punching power at every weight he fought in - trying to allege otherwise is pure fabrication on your part.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn Kemp View Post
Jerry Quarry was a 190 pound fighter so he wasn't a hard punching heavyweight, ...
His KOs of Shavers, Spencer, Foster, and Bodell all visibly show otherwise.

Quote:
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Doug Jones Rocking Ali just shows how overrated Ali's chin is.
No, it reaffirmed what Jones' KOs of Folley and Rademacher had already proven.
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