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Old 04-04-2013, 12:50 PM   #1
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Default Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

I think the ref stopped the fight a little early. However, I think Forrest fought the wrong fight by trying to trade with Mayorga. What are your thoughts?
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

Nah, okay stoppage.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict View Post
I think the ref stopped the fight a little early. However, I think Forrest fought the wrong fight by trying to trade with Mayorga. What are your thoughts?
Agree with you on the early stoppage.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

Forrest was badly hurt, and was being outfought and bullied.

He was overwhelmed that night. The stoppage is defensible, and I feel confident Forrest would not have survived the round had he been allowed to continue.
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:59 PM   #5
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Forrest was badly hurt, and was being outfought and bullied.

He was overwhelmed that night. The stoppage is defensible, and I feel confident Forrest would not have survived the round had he been allowed to continue.
Agreed. And if he had, he'd most likelty have continued to trade or fight ugly with Mayorga, which wouldn't have worked anyway. That's Mayorga's game. At that time, nobody knew about the inhuman chin the Nicaraguan had and he probably would have found the target too inviting not to continue to throw at it somewhat recklessly.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

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Agreed. And if he had, he'd most likelty have continued to trade or fight ugly with Mayorga, which wouldn't have worked anyway. That's Mayorga's game. At that time, nobody knew about the inhuman chin the Nicaraguan had and he probably would have found the target too inviting not to continue to throw at it somewhat recklessly.
Forrest struggled with Mayorga because of how he used his feet to punch.

Vernon Forrest LOVED a base to generate power. Wide stance, bent knees, feet on the ground, man. Mayorga was an absolute monster at what Eddie Futch called "Forward flinging"; His momentum carried him ahead, and he still hit hard even when he didn't have his feet right. Forrest couldn't helped but be put off stride and off balance, and when he couldn't line up his shots the way he preferred to do so, he lost control of the fight.

DLH and Trinidad showed you have to, first and foremost, control the range and the pace of the fight. Then, and only then, do you light the tempting target up. You can't JUST throw for the sake of it, or Mayorga will get you off your base and on the move, and he'll just keep throwing and coming. Spinks had the skillset to do something about that(Fight constantly on the move, and backwards), but that wasn't Forrest's game, and his awkward retreats were done primarily to reset. He did so, left himself wide open, and got wrecked with one shot.

Textbook styles clash.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

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Forrest struggled with Mayorga because of how he used his feet to punch.

Vernon Forrest LOVED a base to generate power. Wide stance, bent knees, feet on the ground, man. Mayorga was an absolute monster at what Eddie Futch called "Forward flinging"; His momentum carried him ahead, and he still hit hard even when he didn't have his feet right. Forrest couldn't helped but be put off stride and off balance, and when he couldn't line up his shots the way he preferred to do so, he lost control of the fight.

DLH and Trinidad showed you have to, first and foremost, control the range and the pace of the fight. Then, and only then, do you light the tempting target up. You can't JUST throw for the sake of it, or Mayorga will get you off your base and on the move, and he'll just keep throwing and coming. Spinks had the skillset to do something about that(Fight constantly on the move, and backwards), but that wasn't Forrest's game, and his awkward retreats were done primarily to reset. He did so, left himself wide open, and got wrecked with one shot.

Textbook styles clash.
If you want to see this put into practice further, check the fight with Mosley. He used his feet in a similar way to Forrest(Which is why Vernon's reach and length and leverage became such a distinct edge in their fights), and was similarly thrown by by the awkward attacks of Mayorga.

Oscar was too fast, too powerful, too good.

Tito was too strong and way too powerful, and actually fought an incredibly disciplined fight with his left hand that night.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

Forrest's footwork was always pretty flawed, that's true.

He looked like he had no clue how to handle an aggressive unorthodox non-textbook puncher.Just an all-round lack of poise really, but you get that with some textbook fighters, they just can't handle the awkward brawling maniacs that don't give them what they are used to and don't respect the skills or power.

Usually that changes a bit in rematches, often the awkward but less skilled fighter comes unstuck unless the natural talent they have really exceeds the technician, but Forrest blew it again.
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

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Forrest's footwork was always pretty flawed, that's true.

He looked like he had no clue how to handle an aggressive unorthodox non-textbook puncher.Just an all-round lack of poise really, but you get that with some textbook fighters, they just can't handle the awkward brawling maniacs that don't give them what they are used to and don't respect the skills or power.

Usually that changes a bit in rematches, often the awkward but less skilled fighter comes unstuck unless the natural talent they have really exceeds the technician, but Forrest blew it again.
Honestly, you get spoiled when you box extremely well. I ran into this problem all the time as a younger man.

The thing about good boxers is that everything is so CLEAN and SHARP. It's MUCH harder to deal with for most people, but if you are also clean, sharp, and focused, it's comfortable.

Some green kids, or wild men, who do very little right, and are just wild men reliant on things pretty opposite to what you are: Strength, aggression, mania...Its hard to deal with. Its not clean. Its dirty. Its not sharp. Its wild and unorthodox. It throws you off your comfort zone.

And for a guy SO dependent on his base like Forrest, who keeps people off and still with the great jab so he can PLANT himself and let fly...When a guy says "eff your jab" and just walks through them, and gets you outside your comfort zone, off your base...Man, it throws everything off. From your timing, to your breathing, to your punching motion, to the muscle memory of your weight distribution.

I've seen 10 fight amateurs give undefeated pro's hell in sparring for these reasons. I had some SERIOUS trouble with a guy WAY beneath me in aplomb and record in a training camp once because nothing I liked was working, nothing.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

Mijares against Darchinyan is another great recent example of that sort of thing.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:19 PM   #11
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

Talk about getting a guy out of his rhythm. Mayorga had Forrest's number, but still Forrest was so much better. Bad stylistic matchups happen.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

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Talk about getting a guy out of his rhythm. Mayorga had Forrest's number, but still Forrest was so much better. Bad stylistic matchups happen.
We even saw it in the rematch. Forrest could outbox Mayorga, but only when Mayorga played ball and respected the jab.

Forrest couldn't generate power or stay balanced on the defensive. He just couldn't. Sergio Mora exploited the same thing.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

I always thought Forrest was wildy over rated as a h2h fighter.

This wasn't a fluke, mayorga battered him.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
We even saw it in the rematch. Forrest could outbox Mayorga, but only when Mayorga played ball and respected the jab.

Forrest couldn't generate power or stay balanced on the defensive. He just couldn't. Sergio Mora exploited the same thing.
yeah Mayorga really got him out of his fight, which surprised me because of how great Forrest looked with Shane.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: Just watched Mayorga-Forrest I.

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I always thought Forrest was wildy over rated as a h2h fighter.

This wasn't a fluke, mayorga battered him.
Forrest is hard to rate. His fights with Shane were impressive and his fights with Mayorga the opposite. He probably should have been able to beat Mayorga and adjust if he was as good as the Shane fight seemed to show.
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