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View Poll Results: Does Ali/Ali's corners blatant use of banned substances to recover damage his legacy?
Yes 5 22.73%
No 17 77.27%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-06-2013, 11:12 PM   #91
johnmaff36
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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So I've read every post of this thread and I'm still not sure if we should ban boxers for drinkining coffee, thoughts? And let's say it's coffee without milk/cream but with sugar, thoughts? Should there be retrospective investigations on such substance abuse?

if he drinks coffee its no contest

if its de-caf, result stands....unless there are 2 or more sugars in it then its a NC and 3 month ban.

if its a regular coffee with sugar its a DQ with subsequent 12/18 month ban plus 250hrs community service
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:22 PM   #92
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

All talk of illegal drugs used is absolute BS What happened was Clay was showboating & Cooper nailed him. Clay was very lucky it happened at the end of the round. It was very good corner work by Angelo Dundee that saved the day . Sure they used smelling salts , perfectly legal. But the clever part was Angelo noticing the split glove he admitted he put his finger in it & made it worse then called the referee. While they were discussing what to do the clock was ticking giving Clay extra valuable seconds to recover. When round five started a clear headed & obviously embaraased Clay became a one man demolition squad he wasn't goofing around anymore.
No there was nothing illegal done Luck it happened when it did & good cornerwork saved the day for Clay
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:29 PM   #93
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All talk of illegal drugs used is absolute BS What happened was Clay was showboating & Cooper nailed him. Clay was very lucky it happened at the end of the round. It was very good corner work by Angelo Dundee that saved the day . Sure they used smelling salts , perfectly legal. But the clever part was Angelo noticing the split glove he admitted he put his finger in it & made it worse then called the referee. While they were discussing what to do the clock was ticking giving Clay extra valuable seconds to recover. When round five started a clear headed & obviously embaraased Clay became a one man demolition squad he wasn't goofing around anymore.
No there was nothing illegal done Luck it happened when it did & good cornerwork saved the day for Clay
The myth that Clay got time to recover over the split glove has been greatly exaggerated over the years. The extra seconds he got was no more than
4 or 5 seconds, not a great deal in the grander scheme of things considering he was up at 3, walked to his corner and had 60secs to recover already.

I personally think more is made of the 'ali didnt know where he was' shit is due to people hearing harry carpenter saying so in the commentary, whether its was true or not
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:33 PM   #94
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The myth that Clay got time to recover over the split glove has been greatly exaggerated over the years. The extra seconds he got was no more than
4 or 5 seconds, not a great deal in the grander scheme of things considering he was up at 3, walked to his corner and had 60secs to recover already.

I personally think more is made of the 'ali didnt know where he was' shit is due to people hearing harry carpenter saying so in the commentary, whether its was true or not
I was at the fight believe me Ali (Clay) was semi conscious he didn't know where he was That tape was edited the delay in the corner with the split glove was longer than that
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:36 AM   #95
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I was at the fight believe me Ali (Clay) was semi conscious he didn't know where he was That tape was edited the delay in the corner with the split glove was longer than that
You were at the fight? Why do you think the use of smelling salts is ok? Gives an unfair advantage in my view.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:13 AM   #96
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

It's not as though cooper couldn't punch, he has one of the scariest looking knockouts in history on his record against Joe Erskine.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:27 AM   #97
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I was at the fight believe me Ali (Clay) was semi conscious he didn't know where he was That tape was edited the delay in the corner with the split glove was longer than that
Its been debunked on numerous occasions mate. Im sure you remember a show called 'harry carpenters best boxing moments' on bbc2 about 30yrs ago? Well harry, who loved Cooper (as did many), even said this on the show about people claiming it was a long time (ive personally heard anything between 5,10,15 minutes) to find gloves, and went on to say exactly what it was.

Yes Cooper caught him a TERRIFIC left hook and yes, he did hurt him, but again, he was up right away and back to his corner. I'll have to agree to disagree with you on the not knowing where he was part, cos he certainly knew where he was when he came back out and finished Cooper off. Plus, and im not being smart with you mate, but ive watched it plenty and although its not the same as being there as you were, i seen enough to convince me he wasnt semi-consious
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:16 PM   #98
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Should be changed to a nc.

There is proof of cheating, ref didn't see it so no DQ win for Cooper but it can be still a nc.
And Ali proved he was the better man in the rematch, the nc is purely for the reason that cheating shouldn't give you a win.

The record books should have been changed long ago to make that a win for Henry Cooper. That should have been done while Cooper was still lving. Not only did Clay use illegal smelling salts but he was given an indeterminate amount of time to recover between rounds, probably over four minutes. It is hard to tell because it appears that all the existing tapes have been deliberately edited - spliced - to make it appear that nothing unusual happened between the round that he was knocked down and the next round. I watched a tape of the fight on ESPN Classic, and not only did they splice the tape but they didn't even mention one word about his and Dundee's shenanigans between the rounds to gain him extra time. Not one word! Dundee has admitted slicing open Clay's glove - and then they had to send some people out to hunt up a new glove. That was hardly the only fight that Clay won by cheating. Far from it.
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:19 PM   #99
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Another thing, did Byrd cheat using camomile tea to make him super relaxed and boring? Thought

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smelling salts which brings someone back from the brink of unconsciousness instantly
Sounds like Jesus really just used smelling salts after being crucified, makes sense

Should Christianity be DQ'ed for cheating?
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:12 PM   #100
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Its been debunked on numerous occasions mate. Im sure you remember a show called 'harry carpenters best boxing moments' on bbc2 about 30yrs ago? Well harry, who loved Cooper (as did many), even said this on the show about people claiming it was a long time (ive personally heard anything between 5,10,15 minutes) to find gloves, and went on to say exactly what it was.

Yes Cooper caught him a TERRIFIC left hook and yes, he did hurt him, but again, he was up right away and back to his corner. I'll have to agree to disagree with you on the not knowing where he was part, cos he certainly knew where he was when he came back out and finished Cooper off. Plus, and im not being smart with you mate, but ive watched it plenty and although its not the same as being there as you were, i seen enough to convince me he wasnt semi-consious
That's because of the smelling salts he was good in round 5. Dundee had to wake him up when he first went to his corner by slapping him as you can see in the video because he was not fully conscious.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:06 PM   #101
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The record books should have been changed long ago to make that a win for Henry Cooper. That should have been done while Cooper was still lving. Not only did Clay use illegal smelling salts but he was given an indeterminate amount of time to recover between rounds, probably over four minutes. It is hard to tell because it appears that all the existing tapes have been deliberately edited - spliced - to make it appear that nothing unusual happened between the round that he was knocked down and the next round. I watched a tape of the fight on ESPN Classic, and not only did they splice the tape but they didn't even mention one word about his and Dundee's shenanigans between the rounds to gain him extra time. Not one word! Dundee has admitted slicing open Clay's glove - and then they had to send some people out to hunt up a new glove. That was hardly the only fight that Clay won by cheating. Far from it.
I agree with you.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:10 PM   #102
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

Ali lost that fight IMO, he cheated so it has to be a loss.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:45 PM   #103
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I think it's pretty obvious that Ali most likely would have been knocked out had those smelling salts not been used.
Your not Seņor Pepe in disguise are you?
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:23 PM   #104
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Your not Seņor Pepe in disguise are you?
No. Who is that?
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:55 AM   #105
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Your not Seņor Pepe in disguise are you?
Senor Pepe/Ill Duce had his articles that were nicely written.
This guy isn't even close.
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