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Old 04-09-2013, 06:11 PM   #46
mcvey
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Are you sure? I think Sharkey made the cut of Johnson's top fighters. There was a good read on it a few months ago.

The Sharkey Johnson sparred with was a spent force, hardly the iron bull of the late 1890's who got the better of Corbett, and Choynski.
Johnson was a sparring partner for Sharkey when Sharkey was 27years old. Jack made him look a fool ,and was sacked because Sharkey could not hit him.Jack also said Sharkey was tough , but stupid.
The Corbett fight was widely believed to have been a fake. It's referred to in this month's Ring magazine.

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Old 04-09-2013, 06:13 PM   #47
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

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More lies from Johnson? This is too bad because Johnson was a sharp guy, and can add a lot in terms of observation. The trouble there are many instances where we don't know if he's telling the truth. Good catch.
Johnson is referring to Panama Joe Gans, a sparring partner for Dempsey.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:44 PM   #48
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Johnson wrote a series of articles on his top heavyweights once. One of his articles was on Sharkey.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:24 AM   #49
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

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I'd rate Holmes up there myself.
Ali did a lot of things wrong but got away with them until his reflexes went, same as Jones.
Not really the same as JOnes, though. Ali's chin got him through for a long time, even when his reflexes went.

Its a topic for another thread, But Ali's legendary elasticity of body and leaning backwards adn sidewards with punches is awfully similar to some of the leaning back that Fitz, Corbett adn probably Johnson often employed and are chastised for having no fundamentals.

I wonder if there is more to the lack of fundamentals than meets the eye?
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:26 AM   #50
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

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Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
Johnson wrote a series of articles on his top heavyweights once. One of his articles was on Sharkey.
Taht definitely would be an interesting read. I am guessing that i am not lucky enough for anyone to have links handy.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:37 AM   #51
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

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Johnson was a sparring partner for Sharkey when Sharkey was 27years old. Jack made him look a fool ,and was sacked because Sharkey could not hit him.Jack also said Sharkey was tough , but stupid.
The Corbett fight was widely believed to have been a fake. It's referred to in this month's Ring magazine.
McVey,

What year was this sparring, 1900 ? Sometime around about the Choynski win, just before Ruhlin would beat him?

Astonishingly, if the reference was to either sharkey in 1900 or 1929 and would actually be plausible. Which really does say plenty about how great johnson really was.

The only Johnson Sharkey sparring i have read previously is where they sparred as old men and Johnson had to tell Sharkey to settle down. Sharkey from what i recall rated Johnson the greatest ever adn stated the fact that he couldnt stand the man but still rated him this high as evidence that he was the greatest.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:19 PM   #52
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

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This B.S. propaganda that Jack Dempsey did not fight the TOP black FIGHTERS [plural] in his title reign has to be rebutted time and again....The ONLY viable black heavyweight threat during the early 1920s
Not true Burt. Kid Norfolk is a hall of fame light-h/heavy whom defeated many of dempseys opponents. Also George Godfrey is a hall of fame heavyweight whom would have posed huge problems for an aging dempsey in 1926. Lastly, Dempsey turned down a fight with Sam Langford in 1917 and ran out of the ring vs a 40 year old Joe Jeanette in 1919.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:25 PM   #53
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Facts about Jack Dempsey in regards to black fighters


1. He never fought his top challenger, Harry Wills, who was ranked # 1 contender in the world for 7 straight years.

2. He turned down a fight with Sam Langford in 1917

3. He never fought another black fighter again after John Lester Johnson broke his ribs in 1916.

4. During an exhibition with a near 40 year old Joe Jeanette in 1919, Dempsey hopped out of the ring refusing to fight him.

5. Dempsey never took on two hall of fame black fighters, Kid Norfolk or George Godfrey.
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Old 04-10-2013, 12:30 PM   #54
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

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Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
McVey,

What year was this sparring, 1900 ? Sometime around about the Choynski win, just before Ruhlin would beat him?

Astonishingly, if the reference was to either sharkey in 1900 or 1929 and would actually be plausible. Which really does say plenty about how great johnson really was.

The only Johnson Sharkey sparring i have read previously is where they sparred as old men and Johnson had to tell Sharkey to settle down. Sharkey from what i recall rated Johnson the greatest ever adn stated the fact that he couldnt stand the man but still rated him this high as evidence that he was the greatest.
1901.

" Jack Johnson was the greatest defensive fighter I ever saw,and I tell you that honestly because I hated the man". Tom Sharkey
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:00 PM   #55
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Facts about Jack Dempsey in regards to black fighters


1. He never fought his top challenger, Harry Wills, who was ranked # 1 contender in the world for 7 straight years.

2. He turned down a fight with Sam Langford in 1917

3. He never fought another black fighter again after John Lester Johnson broke his ribs in 1916.

4. During an exhibition with a near 40 year old Joe Jeanette in 1919, Dempsey hopped out of the ring refusing to fight him.

5. Dempsey never took on two hall of fame black fighters, Kid Norfolk or George Godfrey.
SQ, I say we dig up Jack Dempsey's remains, hang him, throw darts at him, and rebury him...Would that finally satisfy you ?

P.S. For your info, Dempsey employed big George Godfrey as a sparring partner, DROPPED him several times, employed Big Bill Tate, helped these two men when they were in need, paid for his old ribbreaker John Lester Johnson years later's expenses in a nursing home, are these the deeds of a virulent racist as some misguided haters of Dempsey suggest ?
P.P.S. And Tommy Gibbons ,Dempsey's old foe as Shelby kod the LH, Kid Norfolk rather easily for your info.
Darn it SQ, let the man rest in peace...He was such a beloved figure for most of his life, and adored by both blacks and whites as a kind and
MODEST boxing figure...Even Harry Wills liked the old Manassa Mauler...
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Old 04-10-2013, 01:39 PM   #56
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Nobody dislikes dempsey on here as far as I'm concerned. We just don't see him with quite the rosey colored glasses you do Burt. If he wasn't referred to as one of, if not the best of all time, he wouldn't get nearly the flake he does. The fact is, people still label him as such, and his record doesn't come close to back up that claim. That is my only issue with the man.. besides that.. I actually like Dempsey. As I've told you before, some of the best memories I have of my grandfather was talking with him at dinner time about Jack Dempsey.
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