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Old 02-17-2008, 12:03 AM   #31
Robbi
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazOC
Hagler wore opponents down and Hearns KO'd them. At whatever weight inbetween 154 and 160 Hearns had the bigger one punch IMO.
Exactly what I said earlier. Hearns never just had more power than Hagler at middleweight, but jr-middleweight as well.
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:10 AM   #32
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

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Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
Oh, although this is mainly a Duran failure thread. Oh great one, how is Hearns such a more accomplished puncher than Hagler at a similar weight?
Look at common opponents and their differing reactions to taking punches from both Hearns and Hagler, it's not exactly rocket science is it?
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:25 AM   #33
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Look at common opponents and their differing reactions to taking punches from both Hearns and Hagler, it's not exactly rocket science is it?
Don't scratch that head too hard... it may just reach something important

It's not rocket science, but the only way I can see such a disparity between the two fights is if Hagler intentionally wished to perfrom badly.... I just don't see that.

Hagler pasted Hearns, no doubt about that one... so who hit harder. Hearns looked pretty good until Hagler really decided to TAKE it TOO HIM!

This is a harder question to answer than just folks throwing this or that as insults to another.

Duran himself was the different factor... God knows why
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Old 02-17-2008, 12:52 AM   #34
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
Don't scratch that head too hard... it may just reach something important

It's not rocket science, but the only way I can see such a disparity between the two fights is if Hagler intentionally wished to perfrom badly.... I just don't see that.

Hagler pasted Hearns, no doubt about that one... so who hit harder. Hearns looked pretty good until Hagler really decided to TAKE it TOO HIM!

This is a harder question to answer than just folks throwing this or that as insults to another.

Duran himself was the different factor... God knows why
I'm not talking anything about the differing fights, i have only addressed the power thing between the two.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:06 AM   #35
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I'm not talking anything about the differing fights, i have only addressed the power thing between the two.
So Hearns hits harder than Hagler? Prove it!

I'm not saying that it is an impossibility, but how you can prove it to me against Duran may be a stretch.
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Old 02-17-2008, 01:17 AM   #36
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
So Hearns hits harder than Hagler? Prove it!

I'm not saying that it is an impossibility, but how you can prove it to me against Duran may be a stretch.


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Old 02-17-2008, 01:32 AM   #37
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1


OK, how did Hearns hit harder than Hagler at Middleweight?


Getting back to Duran, the main thrust of the post, he certainly looked to be a different fighter between when he faced Hagler and when he faced Chicken Legs.
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:24 AM   #38
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

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Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
I can't say that all three weren't good/great boxers. All three had, at least, respectable punching power.

Hearns, while his punches may have stunned a Hagler, they completely toasted a Duran.

Hagler, while he didn't KO Duran, he completely toasted Hearns once a minor cut was called into question.

Duran, got toasted by Hearns, yet was able to take the punch of a possibly heavier hitter in a very close decision loss to Hagler.

I suppose Duran is the guy I'm most interested in. Why was he able to take on a Hagler, yet fail so terribly against a Hearns?
Ok, I go with Duran knew how to fight lefties and used his slick defense to neutralize Hagler's power.

I remember Bob Arum said when he made the fight that he saw Hagler & Duran standing side-by-side at some boxing function tht they weren't too different in size. Plus I think Hagler was a little awed by Duran for some reason after he destroyed Cuevas and Moore back-to back.
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Old 02-17-2008, 03:34 AM   #39
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
I can't say that all three weren't good/great boxers. All three had, at least, respectable punching power.

Hearns, while his punches may have stunned a Hagler, they completely toasted a Duran.

Hagler, while he didn't KO Duran, he completely toasted Hearns once a minor cut was called into question.

Duran, got toasted by Hearns, yet was able to take the punch of a possibly heavier hitter in a very close decision loss to Hagler.

I suppose Duran is the guy I'm most interested in. Why was he able to take on a Hagler, yet fail so terribly against a Hearns?
hearns hit harder but what did duran was you couldnt see that right hand he was too fast and marvin hagler could take as much as jake lamotta
he got hit with massive shots and didnt blink
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Old 02-17-2008, 04:01 AM   #40
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Roberto Duran has been my favorite fighter since I began following boxing-but there are limitations and Duran obviously had a tendency to get way out of shape between fights.I was at,maybe his worst performance,ever, against Kirkland Laing in Detroit.I love Tommy Hearms,but I think Hearns got Duran "at the right time".Duran did better than Hearns against Iran Barkely,Marvin Hagler and was the first guy to beat an excellent undefeated Ray Leonard at 147,in which he moved up-and did over 15 rounds.He can't seriously be expected to do that every day.The amazing thin about Duran is that he competed against the bigger guys as well as he did.
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:37 AM   #41
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Sorry to the OP but this has descended into a really stupid thread, and the OP has to take most of the blame for it. A thread like this IMO belongs on the General Forum.

Question: Do you think if Hagler was able to get Duran out of there before the judges (which he hated even before the SRL loss) decided he would have made every effort to do so?

IMO he couldn't because:
  1. He did not possess the single shot power needed to move a guy with the chin of a Duran
  2. Duran's defensive skills allowed him to avoid much of the power shots coming at him from Hagler, who did not have the handspeed to negate Duran's head movement
To me the above statements are obvious, as obvious as the fact that at 154lbs/160lbs Hearns was a bigger puncher. Hearns destroyed Duran because he had the power and reach to do so. Hagler did not destroy Duran because he did not possess the power and handspeed of Hearns. IMO you really cannot get a much better common opponent than one of the greatest fighters of all time with one of the best chins of all time.

What more proof do you need?!?
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:47 AM   #42
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Not to mention Roldan Dop
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Old 02-17-2008, 10:31 AM   #43
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

I feel Duran's lack of motivation was the main culprit in how he performed against Hearns...Duran was very motivated for the prospect of a Hagler fight, after losing to Benitez and Laing, Duran was thrown out by Don King, and was considered to be totally washed up...After ballooning up in weight, he started up with Top Rank gradually rounding into form against Cuevas and Moore...Duran was sky high at the chance to redeem himself fromthe Leonard debacle, against the 'invincible' Hagler. Hagler did respect Duran in their fight, almost to a fault...The Petronelli's spoke openly re Hagler's tentativeness to the big fight atmosphere, and his opponent.
Sadly, Duran did not maintain his motivation for the Hearns fight, and was more preoccupied with making 154 lbs after a large weight gain than winning a fight...but Hearns was ultra motivated to put himself in a position for big money...and stylistically Hearns would always be very problematic for Duran.
Fro what it is worth, Juan Roldan commented in a Sports Illustrated article that Hearns unquestionably hit much harder than Hagler.
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Old 02-17-2008, 06:42 PM   #44
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Yeah,those fights were all won with different circumstances,or styles.Hearns reach would be a problem for Duran every time,but if Duran got inside? who knows.. I really wished Hearns and Hagler fought again. Tommy would have put up a better fight I think by not breaking his hand on the Marvelous one's dome. Even though he put up a great fight,it should have gone much longer. The rematch result? who knows.
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Old 02-18-2008, 06:52 PM   #45
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Default Re: Hagler, Duran, Hearns mix....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
I can't say that all three weren't good/great boxers. All three had, at least, respectable punching power.

Hearns, while his punches may have stunned a Hagler, they completely toasted a Duran.

Hagler, while he didn't KO Duran, he completely toasted Hearns once a minor cut was called into question.

Duran, got toasted by Hearns, yet was able to take the punch of a possibly heavier hitter in a very close decision loss to Hagler.

I suppose Duran is the guy I'm most interested in. Why was he able to take on a Hagler, yet fail so terribly against a Hearns?
This comes down to aggression and power, Rocco. Just ask yourself this question: who came out faster against Duran, Hagler or Hearns?


No offense to Duran fans but Hagler was simply laying back the whole fight and it's obvious he was pulling his punches in close-yes, pulling his punches. Those were not hard , sharp blows but more what you might powder puff punches, arm punches, slaps-nothing behind them at all.

Now, take a look at the Hearns fight where Duran was getting mutilated. First sign is the cut. has to be very sharp and accurate to cut Duran. Then the 1st kd which I saw in the replays from another angle. The force of the blow went clean thru his jaw and ruined him. Perfect delivery-Duran didnt have a leg under him. Also keep in mind the last blow of the fight was such that it was clearly audible and you saw the effect as it landed on Duran's jaw. When did Hagler ever launch that kind of assualt on Duran? Tommy was just more aggressive and upped the pace whereas the Hagler fight was more of a glorified exhibition.

I understand why Duran MIGHT get Hagler's respect considering what he did to Moore and Cuevas but...why didn't Hearns get the same respect from Hagler after destroying Duran?? No one has ever answered this question.

Anyone who says Hagler did not have the power to knock out Duran hasn't seen the Lee, Minter, Monroe, Hamani, and Scypion fights or the second Obel fight. Does anyone really think his attack on Duran compares with the kind of attack he unleashed on Hearns?

As i said it comes down to aggression and as Mike Tyson would say "bad intentions"
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