Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-04-2013, 03:59 AM   #1
Yellowmustard
Journeyman
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 82
vCash: 500
Default Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Let me first start by saying that I have nothing but the utmost respect for Joe "Smokin" Frazier. The guy was a legend. But like Ali, I feel he had some very negative attributes. I found the fact that people fall for the whole sensitivity part of Joe hilarious. The guy didn't even know what Uncle Tom meant. People keep saying he helped get Muhammad Ali's license back, but the guy could barely but two words together, let alone persuade Nixon to help. You all really think Richard Nixon would listen to Joe Frazier. Watch any interview with Joe back then. Its 90 percent mumble. Yes, he did help him financially but so did 50 other prominent black athletes. The fact that people ( especially people who have family growing up at that time in the south) feel sorry for him is sad. Since when is sensitivity a good thing. Just read the horrible things Ali had happen to him during the draft exile. Joe was crying on camera man. Guilting his adopted city, and basically forcing them to recognize him. Ali apologized (after the fight, then in public and also in private. Still Joe insist on crying about it. Making fun of the men's sickness. I got family members with Parkinson's. Ali did more as a champion then he ever did. How many hospitals and charities did Joe help as a champion.

The worst part is Joe criticizing Ali on his personal life. Who gives a damn how many women ali slept with. Anyone who really thinks Joe was a better fighter or human being then Ali needs to wake up. He hated him so much, why appear on camera with him several times. Just wanted to see his name in the paper.

The sad part is, and you all damn know this is true. Joe thought he was just as articulate and smart as Ali. He really deep inside wanted to be him. It makes me angry because I feel like this behavior will scar his legacy. As a professor in my school said ( prime reason I made this thread) " The fact that Muhammad Ali got to Joe Frazier so bad, just makes his legacy greater".
Yellowmustard is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-04-2013, 06:47 AM   #2
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 5,725
vCash: 1887
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

To be honest, you won't find much argument from me on this matter.
fists of fury is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 09:39 AM   #3
Foxy 01
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,565
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

I thought Joe was quite " busy " on the Philadelphia charity scene, getting himself involved in projects for underprivileged kids.

I also think its a bit naive to say he didn't know what an " Uncle Tom " was.

Furthermore its pretty obvious he wasn't as articulate as Ali, hence the holding of the grudge.
Foxy 01 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 09:46 AM   #4
The Morlocks
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 880
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowmustard View Post
Let me first start by saying that I have nothing but the utmost respect for Joe "Smokin" Frazier. The guy was a legend. But like Ali, I feel he had some very negative attributes. I found the fact that people fall for the whole sensitivity part of Joe hilarious. The guy didn't even know what Uncle Tom meant. People keep saying he helped get Muhammad Ali's license back, but the guy could barely but two words together, let alone persuade Nixon to help. You all really think Richard Nixon would listen to Joe Frazier. Watch any interview with Joe back then. Its 90 percent mumble. Yes, he did help him financially but so did 50 other prominent black athletes. The fact that people ( especially people who have family growing up at that time in the south) feel sorry for him is sad. Since when is sensitivity a good thing. Just read the horrible things Ali had happen to him during the draft exile. Joe was crying on camera man. Guilting his adopted city, and basically forcing them to recognize him. Ali apologized (after the fight, then in public and also in private. Still Joe insist on crying about it. Making fun of the men's sickness. I got family members with Parkinson's. Ali did more as a champion then he ever did. How many hospitals and charities did Joe help as a champion.

The worst part is Joe criticizing Ali on his personal life. Who gives a damn how many women ali slept with. Anyone who really thinks Joe was a better fighter or human being then Ali needs to wake up. He hated him so much, why appear on camera with him several times. Just wanted to see his name in the paper.

The sad part is, and you all damn know this is true. Joe thought he was just as articulate and smart as Ali. He really deep inside wanted to be him. It makes me angry because I feel like this behavior will scar his legacy. As a professor in my school said ( prime reason I made this thread) " The fact that Muhammad Ali got to Joe Frazier so bad, just makes his legacy greater".
PURE CRAP AND BULLSHIT REVISIONIST GARBAGE. Obviously you are an Ali fan who can't take the truth about your fighter. You hated the Manilla special and feel the need to cry out. And btw, your professor is full of shit. How does "getting" to someone make his legacy greater? So, if a school bully "gets" to you by demeaning and calling you names, that makes the bully greater? That is sooo f8734765g stupid. Being from Philly and there in the gyms, I know you are wrong. Another Ali lover who wants no bad words about a guy that did all bad words to others. Aliappoligizer
The Morlocks is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 09:53 AM   #5
The Morlocks
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 880
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowmustard View Post
Let me first start by saying that I have nothing but the utmost respect for Joe "Smokin" Frazier. The guy was a legend. But like Ali, I feel he had some very negative attributes. I found the fact that people fall for the whole sensitivity part of Joe hilarious. The guy didn't even know what Uncle Tom meant. People keep saying he helped get Muhammad Ali's license back, but the guy could barely but two words together, let alone persuade Nixon to help. You all really think Richard Nixon would listen to Joe Frazier. Watch any interview with Joe back then. Its 90 percent mumble. Yes, he did help him financially but so did 50 other prominent black athletes. The fact that people ( especially people who have family growing up at that time in the south) feel sorry for him is sad. Since when is sensitivity a good thing. Just read the horrible things Ali had happen to him during the draft exile. Joe was crying on camera man. Guilting his adopted city, and basically forcing them to recognize him. Ali apologized (after the fight, then in public and also in private. Still Joe insist on crying about it. Making fun of the men's sickness. I got family members with Parkinson's. Ali did more as a champion then he ever did. How many hospitals and charities did Joe help as a champion.

The worst part is Joe criticizing Ali on his personal life. Who gives a damn how many women ali slept with. Anyone who really thinks Joe was a better fighter or human being then Ali needs to wake up. He hated him so much, why appear on camera with him several times. Just wanted to see his name in the paper.

The sad part is, and you all damn know this is true. Joe thought he was just as articulate and smart as Ali. He really deep inside wanted to be him. It makes me angry because I feel like this behavior will scar his legacy. As a professor in my school said ( prime reason I made this thread) " The fact that Muhammad Ali got to Joe Frazier so bad, just makes his legacy greater".
I always love it when someone says, "I have the utmost respect for..." and then proceed to verbally slaughter w/ lies and false allegations and madeup crap to prove their point.
The Morlocks is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 09:56 AM   #6
DaveK
Vicious & Malicious
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,820
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Yellowmustard is a stain on the shirt of this forum.

More than a little harsh and biased.
DaveK is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 10:27 AM   #7
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 11,576
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Morlocks View Post
I always love it when someone says, "I have the utmost respect for..." and then proceed to verbally slaughter w/ lies and false allegations and madeup crap to prove their point.
Right up there with "With all due respect but.." and "Take this in the manner intended"...
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 10:59 AM   #8
Vinegar Hill
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 693
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Both loved,both great,both flawed.
Vinegar Hill is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 11:07 AM   #9
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 3,918
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

I do like that phrase, though.........."A stain on the shirt of this forum."
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 11:15 AM   #10
spinner
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 227
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowmustard View Post

1) The guy didn't even know what Uncle Tom meant.

2) the guy could barely but two words together

3) Watch any interview with Joe back then. Its 90 percent mumble.

4) How many hospitals and charities did Joe help as a champion.

I will only attempt to address these matters.

First, "Uncle Tom" was widely used back then by the Black Power movement. It was also referenced by advocates for other minority groups. As an advocate for Hispanic causes, I recall using that term for what I and others perceived to be Hispanic apologists and defenders of racism. We also used the term "gusano" (worm) because it is a brown skinned creeper with its nose to the ground and night soil.

Thus, everybody knew that term.


Second, Smokin Joe could talk a good fight and back it up with his fists.

Third, Frazier was widely interviewed on TV and in Playboy magazine. He was as well spoken as any boxer or athlete in his era. But he spoke with a deep Southern accent which is natural considering that he was from rural South Carolina. By contrast, Ali was from an urban area (Louisville, Ky) and did not have a rural accent.

Fourth, Frazier did charitable work:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


He did not make as much money as did Ali and was not in any position to give as much money to charity as he did. But that does not mean he was uncharitable. If I recall correctly, he contributed much to sickle cell anemia research as that was a cause that was well known as the time. Sadly, he made a few bad investments in land that did not pan out and these resulted in huge financial losses.

Frazier may have had his shortcomings as so many other sports legends. But he was highly respected as a person. In fact when Ali was diagnosed with the illness, Frazier was quoted as having said "I forgive him" for the abuse Ali used on him.


Thus, I find that much of what you have written is groundless.
spinner is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 11:18 AM   #11
Anubis
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 808
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
I do like that phrase, though.........."A stain on the shirt of this forum."
Yeah, I guess it's better than, "A stain on the sheet of this forum," or, "Lipstick on the collar of this forum," or, "Lipstick on the dipstick of this forum."
Anubis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 11:29 AM   #12
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 3,918
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
Yeah, I guess it's better than, "A stain on the sheet of this forum," or, "Lipstick on the collar of this forum," or, "Lipstick on the dipstick of this forum."

It's better at least inasmuch as those others imply at the very least some kind of illicit pleasure that caused the stain.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 11:35 AM   #13
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,418
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellowmustard View Post
The guy didn't even know what Uncle Tom meant.

Based upon what? This is an astonishingly ignorant thing to write, I think.

Quote:
People keep saying he helped get Muhammad Ali's license back, but the guy could barely but two words together, let alone persuade Nixon to help.
You've completely mis-understood. As the ruling HW champ, Joe's position on the matter was of some import, and would be reasonably widely heard. If the Champion says it, boxing wrters can say it, and boxing people - those are the people that really got Ali his licence back - can apply the pressure. I don't think you really understand, Nixon had nothing to do with it.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 12:21 PM   #14
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 8,996
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

I think that most black people growing up in fifties,sixties and seventies America were all too aware of what the expression "Uncle Tom" meant.


Both Ali and Frazier had their flaws like anyone else.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2013, 12:41 PM   #15
kingfisher3
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: south london
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Frazier and the sympathy crew

if i was in joe's shoes i'd have held the same grudge against ali tbh
kingfisher3 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013