Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-20-2008, 05:04 AM   #16
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,477
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatboxer
That was a shocking post.

Why is Hopkins overrated? I can't be bothered writing an essay but the obvious points are that his best wins during his 'legendary' reign at Middleweight are over 'the loss whore' Glen Johnson and a couple of blown up welters by the names of Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya. He also lost to the two best middleweights he ever faced, RJJ and Taylor.

Now to his light heavyweight campaign. He beat Antonio Tarver to gain almost universal recognition as the top man in the divison. OK a good win. However lets not pretend that Tarver was a great fighter. First Eric Harding had his way with him. In fairness Tarver avenged that loss and gave a weight drained and sickly looking Roy Jones a good fight but still ultimately loss. That being said, everyone recognised that superman Roy was getting older and perhaps this might have been the start of the inevitable slide that afflicts all fighters....the oncoming of age. Many on ESB picked Tarver i recall. So Tarver catches him and knocks him out. Good win nonetheless and Tarver has momentum which he subsequently squanders by losing to Johnson. Then he beates Johnson in a rematch and faces Hopkins and loses again. Got a bit of a habit of doing that that Tarver.

So here Hopkins is recognised as the top man at LHW. And what does this big shot do? Pretend hes going to climb to Heavyweight to regain Americas honour to get some publicity then signs to fight a blown up Junior Middleweight at LHW, struggles in sports but ultimately records a win.

Hopkins has been overrated, grossly overrated since late 2001. Im glad though. Because when Calzaghe defeats him by a wide margin he SHOULD get a whole ton of credit by the Hopkins sackswingers and the American media alike. However, we know that won't happen because they have their ready made excuses of 'hes old', 'hes past his prime' and to the more analytical naysayers 'we all already knew that Hopkins had lost to the best fighters he ever faced....it was sooooo obvious Calzaghe was going to whoop him...JC has to fight someone with a pulse fight Dawson!' and of course if he fights and beats Dawson hes just a prospect who fought nobody and was too inexperienced.

Anyway, for the reasons ive mentioned Hopkins is overrated. Does not mean hes not a very good fighter but i can't help but laugh when people mention him alongside the likes of Monzon and Hagler at middleweight....hes a tier below.
Wow you must have a LOT of time on your hands
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-20-2008, 05:25 AM   #17
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,477
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxstuff
Hopkins is just a good example of repeating something enough that people accept it as the truth.

He's a good fighter, but his resume amounts to shit without the wins against the two welterweights and the loss to Roy Jones Jr.
Incorrect.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 07:13 AM   #18
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,477
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxstuff
Why do you say that, Jeff?
I really rate him- He has improved so much over the years and gone from a so-so brawler to a classy and clever professional. The De La Hoya win is often poo'ed on but lets remember no one else has ever come close to stopping him (acratch the two early career knockdowns). He also outboxed the golden boy for long periods. Trinidad was THE man to beat- he had beaten everyone previously out of sight with the exception of De La Hoya. And was coming off the oblitiration of the still useful William Joppy. Hopkins mastered him- out boxing and then out fighting him. Add to that good, world class names like John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, Simon Brown, Antwun Echols, Keith Holmes and William Joppy and you don't have a bad middleweight reign at all. Tarver was the linear light heavyweight champion so regardless of his performances against the capable Eric Harding he was still the man at light heavy- Hopkins completely outclassed him. Finally add on the Wright win, where he largely dominated a fighter who has beaten some of the biggest names in the sport for the last 10 years and you have a cracking resume which is pretty much unmatched outside of Mayweather.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 07:46 AM   #19
Beatboxer
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff thomas
I really rate him- He has improved so much over the years and gone from a so-so brawler to a classy and clever professional. The De La Hoya win is often poo'ed on but lets remember no one else has ever come close to stopping him (acratch the two early career knockdowns). He also outboxed the golden boy for long periods. Trinidad was THE man to beat- he had beaten everyone previously out of sight with the exception of De La Hoya. And was coming off the oblitiration of the still useful William Joppy. Hopkins mastered him- out boxing and then out fighting him. Add to that good, world class names like John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, Simon Brown, Antwun Echols, Keith Holmes and William Joppy and you don't have a bad middleweight reign at all. Tarver was the linear light heavyweight champion so regardless of his performances against the capable Eric Harding he was still the man at light heavy- Hopkins completely outclassed him. Finally add on the Wright win, where he largely dominated a fighter who has beaten some of the biggest names in the sport for the last 10 years and you have a cracking resume which is pretty much unmatched outside of Mayweather.
It was hardly a great achievement outboxing DLH at middleweight.

Felix Sturm did a pretty comprehensive job of that himself.

Hopkins reign at middleweight is very comparable to JCs at SMW...without the win against someone the caliber of Mikkel Kessler of course.
Beatboxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 07:47 AM   #20
Beatboxer
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff thomas
Wow you must have a LOT of time on your hands
Nah mate just got a fair bit of recent history at my finger tips.

And I can touch type.
Beatboxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 07:58 AM   #21
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,477
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatboxer
It was hardly a great achievement outboxing DLH at middleweight.

Felix Sturm did a pretty comprehensive job of that himself.
Fair point though i'd say Sturm performance was overrated. He was just more competitive then expected.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 07:59 AM   #22
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,477
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatboxer
Hopkins reign at middleweight is very comparable to JCs at SMW...without the win against someone the caliber of Mikkel Kessler of course.
But when you follow up with this- sarcasm aside- you ruin your initial point.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 08:46 AM   #23
Beatboxer
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff thomas
But when you follow up with this- sarcasm aside- you ruin your initial point.
Not really.

Hopkins fans rag on JC's record all the time...yet for all your Echols, Holmes, Johnsons, Joppys Lipseys etc Calzaghe has Reid, Mitchell, Eubank, Brewer, Sheika etc on his...a similar class of fighter and yet Hopkins fans use exactly these sort of fighters to boost his resume when people diss it on the grounds that his two most notable wins at the weight were over two blown up welters...

People attack JC over the fact that he fought the odd Tocker Pudwill, Will McIntyre calibre of fighter. But Hopkins also farted around in the early stages of his undisputed reign taking on the likes of Daniels and Hakkar.

Hopkins however unlike JC did not defeat a fighter the calibre of Kessler. He also lost to the two best fighters he ever fought at that weight.

My point is he had a good solid MW reign. What annoys me is when people buy into this nonsensical crap that he has a record to rival the likes of Hagler and Monzon...or that he has a vastly superior resume to Calzaghe...which is also bollocks. They have similar records but to me JC taking down the two undefeated up and comers that were supposed to rule the division in Lacy and Kessler infact gives him the edge for me.

Hopkins record is overrated, Calzaghes underrated.

That is my point.
Beatboxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 08:51 AM   #24
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,477
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatboxer
Not really.

Hopkins fans rag on JC's record all the time...yet for all your Echols, Holmes, Johnsons, Joppys Lipseys etc Calzaghe has Reid, Mitchell, Eubank, Brewer, Sheika etc on his...a similar class of fighter and yet Hopkins fans use exactly these sort of fighters to boost his resume when people diss it on the grounds that his two most notable wins at the weight were over two blown up welters...

People attack JC over the fact that he fought the odd Tocker Pudwill, Will McIntyre calibre of fighter. But Hopkins also farted around in the early stages of his undisputed reign taking on the likes of Daniels and Hakkar.

Hopkins however unlike JC did not defeat a fighter the calibre of Kessler. He also lost to the two best fighters he ever fought at that weight.

My point is he had a good solid MW reign. What annoys me is when people buy into this nonsensical crap that he has a record to rival the likes of Hagler and Monzon...or that he has a vastly superior resume to Calzaghe...which is also bollocks. They have similar records but to me JC taking down the two undefeated up and comers that were supposed to rule the division in Lacy and Kessler infact gives him the edge for me.

Hopkins record is overrated, Calzaghes underrated.

That is my point.
Like your points... Really well argued but IMO hopkins win over trinidad, the air apparent (wrong spelling i know, who cares!) gives him the edge. I also think that Hopkins wins the fight- though of course I want Joe to pull it off. One things for certain the winner when they meet is an ATG no arguments.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 08:53 AM   #25
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,477
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Also Danials was a very good fighter and looked to be a future p4p entrant until Julio Cesar Vasquez turned him into a happy meal for the WBA light middle title. He was quite superb before that loss.
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 09:04 AM   #26
Beatboxer
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff thomas
Like your points... Really well argued but IMO hopkins win over trinidad, the air apparent (wrong spelling i know, who cares!) gives him the edge. I also think that Hopkins wins the fight- though of course I want Joe to pull it off. One things for certain the winner when they meet is an ATG no arguments.
Cheers mate.

And yea of course, there is arguments for and against both in terms of who is actually going to win the fight and many guys who's boxing knowledge I respect have made convincing arguments in favour of Hopkins...I disagree but I still acknowledge their points and respect their opinions.

You have that totally right mate...its going to be a great occasion at the very least when they go head to head and there is absoultely no doubt that whoever pulls it off does indeed go down in history as a true all time great and proper legend.
Beatboxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 09:23 AM   #27
Smirf
Lets get ready to rumble
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Liverpool, England
Posts: 73
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

whatever the outcome a prime calzaghe wouldnt stand a chance against a prime hopkins it will be a great fight though
Smirf is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 09:47 AM   #28
Beatboxer
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smirf
whatever the outcome a prime calzaghe wouldnt stand a chance against a prime hopkins it will be a great fight though
Ahhhh here comes yet another newbie marking their entry to the forum by making a big outlandish statement

Even those if you believe that a prime Hopkins beats a prime JC(which many do) to say that he wouldn't stand a chance is one of the most ridiculous and stupid things ive ever heard on this forum and thats saying something.

Your talking about the greatest Super Middleweight of all time, a man who has never lost a fight, a man who has shown he can adapt time and time again in the ring, a man who has beaten a variety of styles and fighters.

Hopkins might well be the best opponent hes ever faced and a young one might well win but ill tell you what its by no means a sure thing and theres no ****ing way in this earth it would be easy...JC at the very least has a good chance of victory.
Beatboxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 09:51 AM   #29
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,477
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smirf
whatever the outcome a prime calzaghe wouldnt stand a chance against a prime hopkins it will be a great fight though
Define Hopkins prime and i'll be impressed. When did he peak?
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2008, 09:59 AM   #30
Beatboxer
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 1000
Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff thomas
Define Hopkins prime and i'll be impressed. When did he peak?
I was actually considering putting that question to you earlier as you seem to be a big fan.

When exactly was Hopkins prime and when did it begin and end?

It is far from clear cut thats for sure! No one can deny the guys longetivity!
Beatboxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013