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Old 02-21-2008, 04:50 PM   #46
joekirkbycobra
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Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

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Originally Posted by mad-23
i reckon bhop is guna get hit so many times hes guna feel like hes surrounded hes not in calzaghe the legend to see wat joes about watch him v mitchell

i think joe will win but it will be fkin hard for him
bhop is no bum
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:34 AM   #47
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Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Very true, Hopkins is no bum. He sure took care of Tarver who knocked out Roid Jones.
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Old 02-22-2008, 03:52 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Beatboxer
Yes mate i didn't say you in particular compared him to Monzon or Hagler others within the forum and the wider boxing community have though and I think thats wrong.

I don't think I contradict myself but in my haste to get my point across I sometimes perhaps don't make it clear enough or else confuse it in amongst some other stuff of this there is no doubt...

And thank you for the apology. I also said on another thread that you know your stuff and I stand by that. Sometimes its hard to be objective as far as your favourite fighter is concerned and given that Bernard is Joes next opponent I may go a bit over the top with any criticisms I make of him....which is a bit silly of me really because I want Joe to get the credit for a huge win(which it would be) should he come out victorious in this contest.

In this thread, Jeff described what he thought was Bernard Hopkins prime. Seeing as your a big fan as well, I would like to ask you when you believe this began and when you feel it ended(if you do believe that it has ended that is.) Hopkins is somewhat of an enigma in this regard and what I will say has adapted to the onslaught of age better than any fighters in the modern era than I can think of (Virgil Hill did well but was hardly elite in his advanced years in the sense that Hopkins is.)

Your thoughts would be appreciated.
I first must say I think you have hit the nail on the head because this is Hopkins' main problem. The boxing fraternity at large find it hard to pinpoint his prime. With other fighters it's easier to define a period where they were at their best.

For me his prime probably starts with Glen Johnson & ends with Trinidad. To look at this subjectively you have to forget whether you like his style or not. During this period it is difficult to refute he was the best middleweight in the world. Despite many considering him a blown up welter the Trinidad fight was a defining moment for him.

I think in that fight the performance was important & I must say it was arguably his best. It's like when Lennox Lewis fought Tyson. No one can pretend that was the best Tyson but it will still be remembered as an important part of his career & showed a prime Lewis performing at his best in a big event. Similairly for Hopkins this was a fight against a hugely popular fighter, in a big event for the undisputed crown he craved.

After that I think we saw the transition into the style that has seen him to this point in his career.
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:20 PM   #49
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Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

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Originally Posted by dan-b
I first must say I think you have hit the nail on the head because this is Hopkins' main problem. The boxing fraternity at large find it hard to pinpoint his prime. With other fighters it's easier to define a period where they were at their best.

For me his prime probably starts with Glen Johnson & ends with Trinidad. To look at this subjectively you have to forget whether you like his style or not. During this period it is difficult to refute he was the best middleweight in the world. Despite many considering him a blown up welter the Trinidad fight was a defining moment for him.

I think in that fight the performance was important & I must say it was arguably his best. It's like when Lennox Lewis fought Tyson. No one can pretend that was the best Tyson but it will still be remembered as an important part of his career & showed a prime Lewis performing at his best in a big event. Similairly for Hopkins this was a fight against a hugely popular fighter, in a big event for the undisputed crown he craved.

After that I think we saw the transition into the style that has seen him to this point in his career.
Indeed. Thanks for your thoughts.

When discussing Hopkins I actually think you could speak about his prime in two senses: his physical prime and perhaps also a mental prime. In regards to the former, I believe this may have started as far back as the Joe Lipsey fight. Not many give Hopkins a whole lot of credit for that bout but Bernard on that night literally 'executed' the career of a highly regarded and thought of up and comer via a very tasty knockout. After that we see a string of good performances against the likes of John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, the second Echols fight and of course culminating in the Trinidad bout where he finally gained the recognition and acclaim that he deserved. During this period I believe Hopkins was physically at his peak, and the manner of his victories I believe are evident of this fact.

Along the way however, he gained experience, fought different fighters learned different styles, always adapting. Nonetheless with the onslaught of age sure to occur, he had to adapt his style. In what I consider his 2nd career, and past physical prime but very much mental prime years, he has added a few things to his game. For example, though never an angel, he has made rule breaking within the ring almost an acceptable art form with his subtle trickery. In this second career he has managed some big name wins against the likes of Hoya, Wright and Tarver. Perhaps not as impressively or as entertainingly as Pre 2001(though the Tarver performance was excellent as was the Joppy beat down) but nonetheless he has kept winning and now finds himself a 2 weight champion. He has relied more on guile, experience and ring smarts as much as physical tools in this era because physically he isn't what he was 10 years ago. And in this chapter has managed some of his biggest wins, (Tarver in particular).

Hopkins is indeed an enigma. To me, you have to acknowledge that whilst physically he is not what he once was, it would be doing him a disservice to say hes out of his prime right now. No. To me the man has had two primes: a physical prime and a mental prime(for want of a better word). Hopkins in my view has never had an absolute prime...he's had two. Take your pick.
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Old 02-22-2008, 05:47 PM   #50
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Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

Hopkins IS badly overrated these days. Basically I agree with Beatboxer. He stayed at middle fighting smaller guys and Robert Allen about 14 times. Of all the elite fighters around those weights in the 90's and early 2000 years, who did he face? Jones, and that's it. He got beat, no arguments. He never fought a whole host of top fighters.

Iv'e no interest in this fight, Calzaghe is a **** and is also overrated. His legacy depends on what Kessler goes on to do...as Lacy was nothing to shout about....and nor was an old and weight-drained Eubank. After that, there's **** all. Too long in a comfort zone fighting stiffs.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:06 PM   #51
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Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

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Indeed. Thanks for your thoughts.

When discussing Hopkins I actually think you could speak about his prime in two senses: his physical prime and perhaps also a mental prime. In regards to the former, I believe this may have started as far back as the Joe Lipsey fight. Not many give Hopkins a whole lot of credit for that bout but Bernard on that night literally 'executed' the career of a highly regarded and thought of up and comer via a very tasty knockout. After that we see a string of good performances against the likes of John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, the second Echols fight and of course culminating in the Trinidad bout where he finally gained the recognition and acclaim that he deserved. During this period I believe Hopkins was physically at his peak, and the manner of his victories I believe are evident of this fact.

Along the way however, he gained experience, fought different fighters learned different styles, always adapting. Nonetheless with the onslaught of age sure to occur, he had to adapt his style. In what I consider his 2nd career, and past physical prime but very much mental prime years, he has added a few things to his game. For example, though never an angel, he has made rule breaking within the ring almost an acceptable art form with his subtle trickery. In this second career he has managed some big name wins against the likes of Hoya, Wright and Tarver. Perhaps not as impressively or as entertainingly as Pre 2001(though the Tarver performance was excellent as was the Joppy beat down) but nonetheless he has kept winning and now finds himself a 2 weight champion. He has relied more on guile, experience and ring smarts as much as physical tools in this era because physically he isn't what he was 10 years ago. And in this chapter has managed some of his biggest wins, (Tarver in particular).

Hopkins is indeed an enigma. To me, you have to acknowledge that whilst physically he is not what he once was, it would be doing him a disservice to say hes out of his prime right now. No. To me the man has had two primes: a physical prime and a mental prime(for want of a better word). Hopkins in my view has never had an absolute prime...he's had two. Take your pick.
Great post. I actually meant to mention the Joppy beatdown as an exception to the transition. I think Hopkins genuinely disliked Joppy for some reason & took pleasure in dishing out a rather severe beating.

I find it interesting you talking about him having two primes because I could even make an argument for him never having a prime so to speak. Hopkins has had quite a unique career in many ways, infact, I think he's quite a unique guy. The mental strength & will to win stem from a deep seeded need to prove himself.

I must make a startling confession & suggest maybe, just maybe I have let emotion cloud my judgement with this up & coming bout & it's not something I normally let happen. I think I like the Hopkins story as much as I do his fights & career. He's done things the hard way & if there were more champions like him boxing would be better off. I don't mean with his style but I mean guys who defend their unified crown with their life. He was middleweight champ, no question.

I guess I'm hoping for a romantic send off for Hopkins with one last show of defiance in the face of indominable adversity. Personally, win or lose, I hope this is Bernards last fight. I don't need to see a much belated rematch with Jones. This would be it, the big send off. Nothing could top it.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:08 PM   #52
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Why is Hopkins a bum?

Many reasons
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:11 PM   #53
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Why is Hopkins a bum?

Many reasons
Go have a black coffee.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:13 PM   #54
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Go have a black coffee.
No way, blue milk and two sugars
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:14 PM   #55
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No way, milk and two sugars
Seriously mate why have you come on this thread trying to cause a row? Are you drunk or do you crave attention?
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:16 PM   #56
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Seriously mate why have you come on this thread trying to cause a row? Are you drunk or do you crave attention?
I've only had a couple of tins

It was tongue in cheek, mainly because I thought I might get this sort of reaction

Wind your neck in
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:17 PM   #57
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Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

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I've only had a couple of tins

It was tongue in cheek, mainly because I thought I might get this sort of reaction

Wind your neck in
Sad.
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:19 PM   #58
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Sad.
It's more sad that after all this time you still take an obvious tongue in cheek remark seriously

Lighten up, I can picture you conking it on your computer chair enraged by a comment on your lover Popkins. Not a good way to go
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:21 PM   #59
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It's more sad that after all this time you still take an obvious tongue in cheek remark seriously

Lighten up, I can picture you conking it on your computer chair enraged by a comment on your lover Popkins. Not a good way to go
Yeah good one.
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Old 02-23-2008, 06:14 AM   #60
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Default Re: why is hopkins a overated bum

I am beginning to warm to Bhops with his interviews, think he is quite funny.
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