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Old 05-04-2013, 03:24 PM   #1
BillB
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Default Liston's family held hostage?

Sonny Liston
The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights
by Paul Gallender

Gallender claims Liston's wife and son were held hostage by Black Muslims during the Lewiston fight. Of course, Liston was told to lose the fight.

Gallender supposedly spent 35 years researching Liston. He interviewed everyone he could find who knew Liston, including Davy Pearl, Geraldine Liston and William Wingate (Liston's son) about the hostage story.

I don't know if it's true but this would answer some questions surrounding that fight.

Not only why Liston went down with what appeared to be a fly swat, but also why he never complained about Walcott's idiotic antics as referee.
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Old 05-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillB View Post
Sonny Liston
The Real Story Behind the Ali-Liston Fights by Paul Gallender

Gallender claims Liston's wife and son were held hostage by Black Muslims during the Lewiston fight. Of course, Liston was told to lose the fight.

Gallender supposedly spent 35 years researching Liston. He interviewed everyone he could find who knew Liston, including Davy Pearl, Geraldine Liston and William Wingate (Liston's son) about the hostage story.

I don't know if it's true but this would answer some questions surrounding that fight.

Not only why Liston went down with what appeared to be a fly swat, but also why he never complained about Walcott's idiotic antics as referee.
Liston was just off coming into the bout and it happens to some fighters. Before the bout was postponed due to Ali's injury the camp reports said Sonny had worked himself into a prime condition, but afterwards he couldn't get it back. I've read the accounts of those watching before the second go and Sonny was having a hard time doing everything from jumping rope to getting banged around the ring. He had reached a peak and for awhile when he started training again appeared to be burnt out. I don't know the hostage account isn't factual, but I can see theres no reason to give it credance.
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Old 05-04-2013, 03:48 PM   #3
BillB
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

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Originally Posted by timmers612 View Post
Liston was just off coming into the bout and it happens to some fighters. Before the bout was postponed due to Ali's injury the camp reports said Sonny had worked himself into a prime condition, but afterwards he couldn't get it back. I've read the accounts of those watching before the second go and Sonny was having a hard time doing everything from jumping rope to getting banged around the ring. He had reached a peak and for awhile when he started training again appeared to be burnt out. I don't know the hostage account isn't factual, but I can see theres no reason to give it credance.
I've heard the same things you point out about Liston's condition.

Here's what I've never understood:

Walcott totally blew his call in giving Ali the bout.
Liston was not counted out.

Liston or his handlers, never uttered a word about it or complained about it. He had an excellent case to get the fight results nullified had he wanted to. It must have gone as he wanted it to.

Last edited by BillB; 05-07-2013 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 05-04-2013, 05:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

I don't believe that kidmapping shit, but that thuggish bunch of racists that Ali used to hang out with probably got to Sonny's head.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:30 AM   #5
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

The three tramps near the grassy knoll.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

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I don't believe that kidmapping shit, but that thuggish bunch of racists that Ali used to hang out with probably got to Sonny's head.
In both fights. What is forgotten and ignored, even in 1964, is how many NOI guys were at fight, and around Liston before fight. Bert Sugar and others shaped the story of first fight over the years into Ali being so superior Liston quit, or the Liston was abully tale, which are both bullshit.

Liston once went distance with broken jaw in early club fight (Marty Marshall bout) but he gives up heavyweight title he worked years for by sitting on stool?
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:56 PM   #7
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

Just reading In this corner 40 world champions.

Don Jordan

What a lunatic,claims to have killed over 30 men,anyway in his fight vs benny peret he says he was told to take a dive,his wife+child at the time were held by the mafia!!
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

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Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
In both fights. What is forgotten and ignored, even in 1964, is how many NOI guys were at fight, and around Liston before fight. Bert Sugar and others shaped the story of first fight over the years into Ali being so superior Liston quit, or the Liston was abully tale, which are both bullshit.

Liston once went distance with broken jaw in early club fight (Marty Marshall bout) but he gives up heavyweight title he worked years for by sitting on stool?
Those two fights are the strangest and most important fights in modern boxing history.
There is a stench coming out of both of them
I doubt we will ever know what happened.
It would rattle too many cages to uncover that the "Greatest"'s career was built upon fraud. People don't want to hear that.
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Old 05-06-2013, 07:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

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Those two fights are the strangest and most important fights in modern boxing history.
There is a stench coming out of both of them
I doubt we will ever know what happened.
It would rattle too many cages to uncover that the "Greatest"'s career was built upon fraud. People don't want to hear that.
Cheers Pepe
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

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Originally Posted by BillB View Post
I've heard the same things you point out about Liston's condition.

Here's what I've never understood:

Walcott totally blew his call in giving Ali the bout.
Liston was not counted out.

Liston nor his handlers, never uttered a word about it or complained about it. He had an excellent case to get the fight results nullified had he wanted to. It must have gone as he wanted it to.
The highlighted portion is interesting and it is hard to comprehend why no questions were ever raised by Liston's camp - certainly none I am aware of anyway.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

I find the whole Ali-Liston affair very interesting. I grew up in the "no-conspiracy-here" era. I remember watching a thing where Don Dumphrey (who I'm guessing was pusing 150 at the time) was saying he could take the punch, but he was in a group that included Angelo Dundee, Ferdie Pacheco, and Archie Moore.

So I guess I never paid much attention. Reading some of these threads really perks my interest. I'm not in the pro-conspiracy camp yet, but it's definitely fun to read the speculation.
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

It's certainly plausible that some of the NOI people forced Liston to give up the title.

This was around the time that some NOI members were assassinating Malcolm X, one of their own who'd gone against their leader.
Obviously Clay/Ali being heavyweight champion was very important to their prestige. A defeated Clay/Ali would have been a bit of a embarrassment to them.

The NOI had more motive for securing the championship for Ali than the few reamining mobsters in boxing had for protecting Liston.
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmann View Post
In both fights. What is forgotten and ignored, even in 1964, is how many NOI guys were at fight, and around Liston before fight. Bert Sugar and others shaped the story of first fight over the years into Ali being so superior Liston quit, or the Liston was abully tale, which are both bullshit.

Liston once went distance with broken jaw in early club fight (Marty Marshall bout) but he gives up heavyweight title he worked years for by sitting on stool?
Yeah, Liston gets shafted all the time. Larry Merchant slagged him in a documentary, so did Sugar. All these journalists made fortunes due to Ali, so it suits them to build Ali up and destroy Liston.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

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Originally Posted by ron u.k. View Post
Cheers Pepe
He doesnt learn does he
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Liston's family held hostage?

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Originally Posted by jdempsey85 View Post
Just reading In this corner 40 world champions.

Don Jordan

What a lunatic,claims to have killed over 30 men,anyway in his fight vs benny peret he says he was told to take a dive,his wife+child at the time were held by the mafia!!
I've read that, he tells how they used to do it as well. Some upbringing he must of had. He was managed by the mob wasn't he?
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