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Old 02-21-2008, 05:29 AM   #1
fists of fury
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Default Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Sonny Liston was no better than Frank Bruno.

True or false?

Give reasons. Pay attention not to legacy, but to overall ability.
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

False.

Liston was slow, but still noticeably quicker than Bruno.
Liston did not freeze standing up after being hit with a strong single shot.
Liston was a true 15 round fighter - Bruno had worse stamina than an asthmatic ant with a heavy load of shopping.

And finally and most importantly, Liston had bigger fists than Bruno!

Seriously, Liston was a lot more than just a big, strong guy whereas that is pretty much all Frank ever was.
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury
Sonny Liston was no better than Frank Bruno.

True or false?

Give reasons. Pay attention not to legacy, but to overall ability.
Though he had slow feet Liston was a far superior boxer to Bruno,much more fluid in his moves,with a far better chin ,and instincts,when Bruno got nailed he froze ,Liston had more power in his jab and left hook Bruno probably in his cross.Liston would walk through Bruno ,as would Cleveland Williams ,imo,Bruno is essentially a manufactured fighter.
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:26 AM   #4
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Regardless of Liston quitting on his stool, he showed a huge heart and a strong, strong survival instinct.

Bruno froze as badly as any fighter ever has when tagged. No exaggeration.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Liston - one of the best fighters in his division's history.

Bruno - glorified journeyman.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Liston - one of the best fighters in his division's history.

Bruno - glorified journeyman.
Meh, journeymens selling him a little short.

No world beater, but come on.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
Meh, journeymens selling him a little short.

No world beater, but come on.
If Bruno was from Columbia, he'd have recieved a single title shot and then become a gatekeeper type.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that somewhere down the line he'd have been imported to lose to some boxing heavyweight prospect in the states, won, and been granted another title run from there, but I doubt it.

Bruno was a star first a box office attraction second and a fighter third. I love the man, but that's those are the facts as I see them.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Liston was a true 15 round fighter - Bruno had worse stamina than an asthmatic ant with a heavy load of shopping.
A true 15 round fighter based on the fact that he never once went 15 and only one time in his entire career fought past 10?
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
A true 15 round fighter based on the fact that he never once went 15 and only one time in his entire career fought past 10?
Stop nit picking.
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:03 AM   #10
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Stop nit picking.
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:04 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
A true 15 round fighter based on the fact that he never once went 15 and only one time in his entire career fought past 10?


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Old 02-21-2008, 12:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Liston had a terrific left jab, Bruno had a very good one.

Liston had great punching power, Bruno had very good punching power.

Both guys were big and strong relative to their eras.

Bruno had the better physique but Liston had the better physical dimensions relative to boxing.

Both were rather slow on their feet but Liston knew how to move whereas Bruno was largely mechanical.

Liston seemed to be more adept at putting together and placing his punches.

Liston could adapt to any style (except Ali's) whereas Bruno seemed to always fight only in his own way and if it did not work "it was too bad".

Bruno froze when hit but Liston tended to go into a crouch when attacked and became harder to hit.

Liston understood and applied mental warfare to the ultimate and his brooding nature and 'deadly visage' reinforced by his ex-con record truely caused trepidation to his opponents; whereas Bruno's friendly and nice guy attitude coupled with his 'dutiful son of a loving mother' image might have been great for popularity but did nothing to the psyche of his opponents.

Summed up, I think it will add up to a huge advantage in Liston's favour.

Last edited by OLD FOGEY; 02-24-2007 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:39 PM   #13
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Liston - one of the best fighters in his division's history.

Bruno - glorified journeyman.

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Old 02-21-2008, 02:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Liston was a natural fighter who knew what his oponent would do before they did it. Bruno had to let them do it and then think about how to react to it.

Liston was prety good at everything really. Inside, outside, offense, defense. Bruno had technical gaps an elephant could wander through.

Liston was a superb ring general while Bruno had the tools but seldom deployed them well.

That is before we even get onto issues like chin stamina etc.
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: Sonny Liston - a cheeky statement lies herein.

Comparing Liston to Bruno is akin to - for example - comparing the great former 1960's hall of fame quarterback Len Dawson to someone like Trent Green. Both played mainly for the Kansas City Chiefs. Dawson had similiar statistics to Joe Montana but no one would ever admit Dawson was close to Montana in historical standing. Same with Liston. His career and mob ties were too murky to ever realize just how great he truly was or could have been. So he is regarded as a notch below greats like Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Foreman, etc. Getting back to Frank Bruno. Like Trent Green, he had all the physical tools but lacked perhaps a true killer instinct. He had nice statistics but did not always produce in crucial situations (clutch) hence the Bruno analogy. So Liston is my Lenny Dawson (hall of famer but not quite in the top pantheon of absolute greats) to Bruno's Trent Green (good football player who had some issues dealing with clutch situations). Liston gets a huge nod over Bruno as Dawson does over Trent Green.
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