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Old 02-21-2008, 11:26 AM   #16
Longhhorn71
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jowcol
I would love to see this oft-used tidbit completely blow to bits as a point of reference.
This was the young, green, off-balance Floyd. I've got the fight on tape and Patterson has this bemused, embarrassed grin on his face as soon as he went down. Although Pete looked pretty polished the first couple of rounds (he was I believe 27-28 years old at the time) this is one of the most one-sided fights you will ever see.

First his chin gets underrated and now I'm reading that his power is overrated as well? Read: if Patterson didn't have major punching power his career would be chock full of guys who just walked right thru him.
No one, and I mean no one, wanted to be on the end of his big left hook and that punch alone puts him ahead of Joe and certainly Archie.

The early green Floyd may not have beaten a 56 Rock.
Ok, substitute Roy "Cut n Shoot" Harris for Rademacher. If Floyd has defensive faults, then he needs to keep his hands up.
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Great insights by everyone. I tend to agree with seems like the gist of most of these posts. Yes, Patterson could drop probably drop Marciano as Walcoott and Moore did early on. But chances are he could not keep him down and Rocky would end up winning. It is also a great point that if Rocky with his bad back had stuck around and fought Floyd in, say, 1959, then by then a seasoned Patterson probably would have beaten an aging Marciano with chronic back problems. It, of course, is purely speculation though.
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:28 PM   #18
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jowcol
I would love to see this oft-used tidbit completely blow to bits as a point of reference.
This was the young, green, off-balance Floyd. I've got the fight on tape and Patterson has this bemused, embarrassed grin on his face as soon as he went down. Although Pete looked pretty polished the first couple of rounds (he was I believe 27-28 years old at the time) this is one of the most one-sided fights you will ever see.

First his chin gets underrated and now I'm reading that his power is overrated as well? Read: if Patterson didn't have major punching power his career would be chock full of guys who just walked right thru him.
No one, and I mean no one, wanted to be on the end of his big left hook and that punch alone puts him ahead of Joe and certainly Archie.

The early green Floyd may not have beaten a 56 Rock.
i saw it on ****ing kotv it was more of a stumble on to a hook...not a knockdown more of a barge down

and anways as you have said pete was actaully a good heavywieght even though it was his pro debut it wasnt like he wasnt deserving. later in his career he prroved that he was a fine addition to the world scene
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I agree 100%

Floyd Patterson is commonly misconstreud as lacking in durability, presumably as a result from his back to back KO losses to Liston. We have to consider that:

A. Liston was an all time great puncher in his prime

B. His style was a lethal match for Patterson

Its also not unreasonable to assume that Floyd may have been declining just a tad at that point as well, though he was still far from washed up.

I still think that a 1955 or 1956 matchup between Patterson and Marciano would result in a win for the Rock. We have to remember that Floyd was still a work in progress then. In my opinion, he really didn't reach his peak until right around the time that he avenged his defeats to Johansen. Even then, he may have been susceptible to crumbling against the pressure, power and durability of a swarmer/puncher like Marciano.

Anything could happen in this type of fight though.
Patterson definitely could drop Marciano, he had the hand speed and power to catch Marciano, like Walcott and Moore did. IMO, Patterson is unjustly discredited because of the two blowouts to Liston. He's the first two time heavyweight champion and one of the most skilled boxers according to Ali.

Liston had Patterson beat before the fights even started and there were reports that Floyd's back was giving him problems at the time. Patterson probably could have made a better account of himself against Liston if he was himself and prepared better mentally. That being said, I think it's fair to say that Liston and Ali didn't fight the best Patterson but a partially declining fighter.


As for deciding who wins between prime Marciano vs Patterson? I'd say Patterson by unanimous decision, unless Marciano knocks him out between the 12th and 15th rounds. Marciano could have been the #1 all time heavyweight if he had fought and beat Patterson getting his 50th win.
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

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Originally Posted by Russell
Or was he not the puncher that Walcott and Moore were?
Probably not the puncher they were, but he could put them together better, so yes, i think he could drop the Rock..

Actually, ill say hes one of the best HW combination punchers..
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:06 PM   #21
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

I am sure Patterson could potentialy drop Marciano he certainly had the fire power.

I suspect he probably wouldnt due to the way the fight would unfold. Marciano had to go after Walcott and Moore in such a way that they could drop a rake on the ground and he would have to tread on it coming in. They were trap setters.
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Patterson could deck anyone with the right shot or two. He was great.
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:17 PM   #23
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
Ok, substitute Roy "Cut n Shoot" Harris for Rademacher. If Floyd has defensive faults, then he needs to keep his hands up.
Ok, substitute this. Floyd took 24 rounds to dispose of Roy Harris and Brian London. That's what makes any reasonable assessment of him virturally impossible! It wasn't his opponents it was HIM, Mr. no killer instinct...
No one puts him down for 10 (rising against Liston) not Foreman or Frazier or Ali or Louis or Rock.

The guy was, plain and simple, one of the biggest enigmas in the history of sport.

As a 6 yr. old in 59 my dad introduced me to Floyd.
He is an all-time sports hero to me.

Maybe the biggest credit to my childhood idol would be is that we've never seen anyone since bring a similar attack into the ring as this hall-of-famer did.........

I'm sorry for rambling; he gave me so many memories....
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Old 02-21-2008, 08:42 PM   #24
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

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Originally Posted by round15
Liston had Patterson beat before the fights even started and there were reports that Floyd's back was giving him problems at the time. Patterson probably could have made a better account of himself against Liston if he was himself and prepared better mentally. That being said, I think it's fair to say that Liston an Ali didn't fight the best Patterson but a partially declining fighter.
Reminds me of Ruben Carter psyching out Griffith with his "faggot" talk at the weigh in and then blowing him out in one.

And the talent gap between Griffith and Carter was FAR bigger than the one between Liston and Patterson.

Really goes to show the mental edge of the game.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Patterson had good power, I dont think he hit a hard as Walcott but was a bit faster, still in reality Marciano hit too hard for him and Rocky hit you all over the head, could Rocky be floored by him? I guess anyone could if hit clean but Rocky had a very solid chin and I think the very wrong opponent for Floyd
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Floyd packed a lot of power in his left hook. I definately believe he could have knocked Rocky down. He had good style to beat Marciano if he could go 12-15 strong rounds.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:40 AM   #27
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell

Really goes to show the mental edge of the game.
And that is one reason why Floyd could never beat a close to prime Marciano, let alone a prime version.
Floyd never fully believed in himself. Marciano went to his grave utterly convinced he could never be beaten.

But I do think he could drop Marciano for a count.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:48 AM   #28
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

He could drop him.

Why not?

Knock him out is a different story.
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:55 AM   #29
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

Who cares????

Marciano would have absolutely destroyed Patterson if they had met before Marciano had retired.
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:31 AM   #30
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Default Re: Could Floyd Patterson drop Marciano...?

certainly floyd could drop rocky,he had good power and speed.i don't think floyd around '56 beats the rock,but the one around the time who beat johannson the 2nd time could have run the rock close.remember also despite the devastating left hook he had good two handed power,he flattened cooper with a right hand.overall though prime for prime i'd still have to go with the rock,because simply floyd would not have been able to keep him down,and if you couldn't do that to the rock you lost.
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