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Old 06-18-2013, 11:11 PM   #1
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Default Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

Who wins?
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:29 AM   #2
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

This is actually a pretty interesting match up! Joe at his best would apply pressure on Holmes he never had to deal with. Larry didn't have the pop to put Joe away like Foreman did, but COULD cut him up and wear him down. But maybe Joe lands that left hook enough to wear Larry out and stop him. It's tough to call, but my money would be on Larry by points.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:08 AM   #3
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

I can't see Larry achieving what Ali couldn't ; namely to keep Frazier off him. I am a big fan of Holmes, but if Norton could give him life and death, Joe could. I see Frazier swarming all over Holmes and wearing him down. Because Larry had such heart and survival instincts he survives a late knockdown to lose by UD.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #4
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

A very interesting fight in a 15 round fight I see Holmes taking the first 5 rounds easy snapping his jab and a good right hand always on his toes. By round 6 the left hooks to the body and head and an underrated straight right are landing on Holmes .By round 10 Holmes my be ahead on points but Fraizer has put money in the bank and Holmes is forced to fight flatfooted Holmes is down in round 12 and 14.Holmes always displayed amazing recoupitive skills and round 15 is a war Fraizers face is showing gross swelling and Holmes ribs feel like there split in half but both fighters see the bell in a classic round Fraizer MD 15 Winner.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:42 PM   #5
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

Thanks for the responses guys. I agree that this is an interesting match up that not many people think about. Surprised not many people wanted to input their thoughts into this fantasy match up.

Holmes would beat Frazier IMO. Had a better jab/footwork than Ali and would be able to keep Frazier off him for a 15 round UD. Pop, pop, right hand! Holmes had a killer right hand too.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:16 AM   #6
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

easy= joe frazier of 71 beats on larry holmes for 15 rds...mike weaver was no joe frazier and gave larry fits...ken norton was way past his due date and still came real close....JOE FRAZIER VIA 15 RD DEC...LARRYS HEART AND CHIN KEEP IN FROM GETTING STOPPED...JOE FRAZIER FROM 68 TO 71 WAS FOR REAL.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:35 AM   #7
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

Ali and Holmes are very similiar in that they both worked behind the jab and used movement to set up angles to throw the right hand. Larry did ,however, do things different in many ways...
He had an excellent uppercut ,which Frazier was always open for, and his punches carried a little more pop to them. Holmes also went to the body far more often and threw the left hook(with authority) when the opportunity presented itself.
Holmes would use the jab as Ali did but that demoralizing uppercut of his would be decisive. Holmes UD.
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

Larry Holmes by a 15-round split decision over "Smokin" Joe Frazier in a, no doubt, explosive heavyweight thriller.

Holmes might not have had the same unique lateral movement as Muhammad Ali but he had a much sharper accurate jab than Ali's and that would be the lone intangible along with sheer conditioning, heart, courage and desire that would propel Larry against someone like Frazier, or even Rocky Marciano who used to come at his opponents almost the same way and as Frazier shares the same physical asset of being one of the few fighters to trouble Holmes the most with their styles due to the fact that both are shorter than Larry instead of tall/taller and that sometimes would be an issue for him if that fighter could find a way to get inside of his reach work the body and create problems for Larry before he's able to solve that fighters style, i.e, Shavers(twice), David Bey, Tyson(although Larry was past his prime and coming off of a year and a half long layoff) and thus therefore would be the case against Frazier and Marciano.

Holmes by 15-round split verdict over Frazier!
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

This is a tough one. This is one of those fights that could go either way. It would be a barnburner, that's for sure. I can envision Holmes dancing his way out of harms way to a UD, using the jab and keeping Frazier off. But I can also see Frazier landing some hooks when he got inside and winning rounds that way, and maybe even getting lucky and dropping Holmes, like Tyson did. But that was a past his prime Holmes in a comeback after a long layoff. A prime Holmes probably wouldn't have gotten caught with those shots that hurt him against Tyson. But you never know.

I just think that late 70s early 80s Holmes had a knack for putting rounds in the bank via the jab. Holmes is probably the greatest pure outboxing heavyweight of all time. At least during his long heavyweight reign. This one has controversial decision written all over it. Against Spinks, Holmes thought he won both of them, and those were very controversial too. But Prime Frazier had more power then Spinks at HW obviously. So he might be able do what no other HW was able to do to Holmes in his prime, which was stop Holmes. Still, in my heart of hearts, I believe prime Holmes had a solid chin and great defense and would eek out a UD, SD, or MD and retain his title. If you put a prime early 80s Holmes into a 1970 fight with Joe Frazier, with Joe being the champion, maybe champion's advantage comes in and Joe gets the decision. If you put a 1970 Joe Frazier into the early 80s as the challenger during Holmes's long title run, I would pick Holmes. Because Holmes had a certain pride about being the champ, much like Ali, and you really had to convincingly beat Holmes to take his title. And I don't think anyone really convincingly beat Holmes when Holmes was champ, not even the Spinks fights, which most people agree were very close.
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

Prime frazier tko or ud.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

Tommo, it would take a top performance from Frazier to not get stopped or hurt badly from those jabs. 1975 Frazier would get beaten badly vs prime Holmes just like he got beat up by an fading Ali in Manila. But I also think that Prime Frazier could weather the storm and not get hurt too badly and still win many rounds. There's a big difference between 1971 Frazier and 1975 Frazier. After he got stopped by Foreman, he was a different fighter. Heck, he was a different fighter going into Foreman I then he was in MSG vs Ali.

Prime Frazier had a great chin and really didn't swell up too bad. it wasn't until after the wars with Ali and Foreman and what not that he started eating too many jabs. Frazier pre-72 didn't really eat that many jabs. I think he could beat prime Holmes, but I tend to lean like 60-40 in favor of Holmes, just because of the style. It's easier to outbox and use that long reach of Holmes then Frazier's style of ducking and landing hooks. Frazier really had no way to avoid that jab, whereas Holmes had the movement to keep Joe off. But Frazier was so good at what he did in his prime that he could actually beat anybody if he fought a smart fight.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:23 PM   #12
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

Its one of those pairings which could go either way, and the balance may ultimatelty be tipped one way or other by as little as a dozen full blooded shots?? In the early rounds when fresh will Larry find time to compose and execute, and catch Joe coming in with some heavy Flush Right Crosses which might hematoma Joe up and allow Larry to Build a landing pad for his heavy Jab, and those Cruder but effective Clubbing Rights Larry Employs when he feels the time is right to terminate proceedings ??

Or does This Prime Joe Suffocate Larry with his Extreme Pressure, Bobbing Weaving and Jinking past Larrys Hurried Jabs, to Rip To body and Head in those Drilled Number sequences as Barked out by Yancey Durham 6-6-2 Body-Body-Head 6-2-2 Body-Head-Head….??
Both men are will warriors who will exceed their normal physical tolerance levels, the will to impose upon, and the will not to be imposed upon, which barring cuts, will probably ensure both paties will have to battle through the exhaustion barriers that this deadlocked mentality will indeed impose on each other's bodies, but as to these tariffs, they instinctively would agree with themselves to recognise the pain the hurt the trauma later…perhaps the next day,,in a dark room with dark glasses….but during their match their desire will fuel their bodies beyond natural resourse…

Larry would be Approx 211 -213lb with Joe Approx 207-209lb so no real advantage to Larry in that regard, and neither seems to me to be capable of taking out the other Early, unlike shavers or weaver Joe does not Plod Forward so Larry will not enjoy time to fully Compose and Execute and will have to move to Create his own Punching Room, and Larry whilst a highly capable mover, usually does it sprarodicly to break up the monotony, shake up some rthyme, and generally when he wishes to move, he much prefers to settle into a slide to side and counter regime, with lots of standing off and always at a distence to suit himself, But Joe will not play ball with this, he will be seeking to hussle, bussle and Tussle Larry off Kilter and launching from a moving platform is always harder then from anchoured foundations, where Ali moves through seer exhuberance and perhaps a desire to Look Pretty at all times, Larry is not adveres to winning ugly, so unlike a the rusty Ali, Larry will seek to gain Maximum Advantage for his output even if it does not look pretty,

Neither can really afford to coast, if Joe stands off to any great degree he allows Larry Full Extension on his punches Joe must deny him that, but Larry will probably be forced, perhaps from the 5th to Negate Joe with clinches and perhaps some leaning on, perhaps whilst looking/hopeing for a Weaver Type uppercut, as a strategy whether imposed or not, it may indeed pay a benefit early in denying Joe the opportunity to create too early a damaging impression, however if you do not disrupt Joe drastically his Rhytmatic Pattern will be Set and Joe once Smoking will be Awfully Hard to dislodge or derail, the heart certainly leans towards this March 8th 71 Ripping, Snorting, Pressure-Hooker to introduce Holmes to a Dance the type of which he has Never encountered before…But the Head…The Head tells me that Joe does not achieve the Ref's Gentleman's Excuse me - This Black Cloud may contain enough to Douse this Smoking !?

Larry Has the Skill The Will the Adroitness, and Minimalist Approach to squandering energy, combined with his particular Bogey Punch Seeming to be the Right Cross, in Nature, a No-Go for Joe, that I can see an Early Rounds Larry Making those Few Impressive Early Connection which will sow the facial Hematoma and contusion seeds in Joe, which will germinate in the last Quarter, in between Joe will be on the Point of Disembolwing Larry with his inside work, and with Larry being repeatedly rattled when joe suddenly switches a hook to the head, but a wary Larry, unlike Ali, never Showboating, denies Joe the full force flush connection he is constantly searching for, as they enter the final 3 rounds they are pretty much level, and on the point of Exhaustion, Joe Snorting Still, but more to clear Blood hampering his Breathing, Hematomas and contusions seeming to cast shadows on his own face from the overhead ring lights, like A Lunar Surface on an Aggressive Lunatic, and Larry His blooded Mouth Agape, sweat pouring down his face, the whites of his eyes Visible every time Joe Now Bundles him to the ropes,... they grunt in unison, Joe in the manical effort of giving, and Larry taking no pleasure in receiving, Its gone Primeval. Manila comes to Vagas,....

But this time its not slow tired heavy veterans, - But Lean Mean Prime Fistic Machines - at least that’s how they started out, Come the 12th (?) we come to something of a Junction, one route leads to victory and one to defeat, and with both level on the cards, and with both now operating in that twilight world of numbed senses, and looking like extras from the Sam Remi stable, the outcame can now be decided by as little as five good punche either way,....

I can see Larry Catching a slower to close Joe with heavy Right coming in, and A tremor in Joes Knees betraying him, which is a cue for Larry to extend his Left as a measuring Stick and Start Clubbing with the Right, so Crude but so Effective, Joe Sags Against the Ropes, Swaying like a Sick Sycamore in a Hurricane, the Ref Jumps in to wave it off just as Durhams white towel flutters in, Larry is lead off to his Corner Stool but is very grateful that l it is brought half way into the ring to him……Joe Spits blood and tells Durham "i want him Again...you better belive it"..…Wills and Skills were level ….But Larrys no waste policy paid dividends,,,and those Half Dozen or so balance tipping Punches…… .

( Ask me Tomorrow and i might lean Joe's way its probably that close...)
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

Joe by decision or late round TKO. Joe would slip most of Holmes' jabs and put more pressure on Larry than anyone ever had, banging Holmes to the body constantly.

In a really tough fight Joe beats Larry's ass.
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Old 06-20-2013, 06:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

I got Larry by decision. But I could certainly see an argument for Frazier.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: Prime Larry Holmes vs Prime Joe Frazier

The difference between Ali's jab and Holmes is that Holmes jab was sharper and heavier. Holmes reach, longer.
Holmes a little bit better puncher in comparison with Ali as well.

Holmes by competitive but comfortable decision.
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