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Old 01-03-2014, 04:28 PM   #376
Seamus
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

Tua's best weight was around 220-225. He was 201 at 19. Many athletes put on 20 functional pounds after that age, especially a large framed, big jointed guy like Tua. I saw him spar when he was shaping into that weight range. He had plenty of stamina and looked very in shape. His output, in his better fights, seems to support this argument. There was no way in hell he was getting under 210 during his prime without seriously compromising his effectiveness.
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Old 01-03-2014, 04:56 PM   #377
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Size does not mean victory , but to suggest that Tua would be around Marciano's size if he cut weight is ridiculous.
Apart from reach Tua is considerably bigger than Lennox Lewis!


Tua has a
49"" chest
30" thighs
19.5" biceps
15" forearms

Marciano had a
39"chest
22" thighs
14" biceps
12" forearms

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Tua was only 10lb more than Marciano when he turned pro. that was before he bacame a walking tree stump under new training methods.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:50 PM   #378
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by choklab View Post
Tua was only 10lb more than Marciano when he turned pro. that was before he bacame a walking tree stump under new training methods.

He was also only 15 when he won the National Jr ama title at Heavy, even though he was actually a Middleweight.

Then 1 year later became the youngest ever winner of his Senior National Heavy title, at only 16.

But those two facts are just as irrelevant to how Tua turned out.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:19 PM   #379
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by Foxy 01 View Post
He was also only 15 when he won the National Jr ama title at Heavy, even though he was actually a Middleweight.

Then 1 year later became the youngest ever winner of his Senior National Heavy title, at only 16.

But those two facts are just as irrelevant to how Tua turned out.
There are less boxers in the whole of New Zealand than there were in half of New England when Rocky was in the golden gloves. so being a "national" champion at 16 of an Australasian country is not the great shakes you think it is. Years after he was relevant 40 plus year old Joe Bugner was Australian Heavyweight champ when ever he wanted to be. The heavyweight boxing population of Australasia is tiny.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:26 PM   #380
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
Guys wait WAIT,

Comparing the lightest ever weight for Tua to the heftiest ever weight for Marciano and declaring them to be approximately the same size is insane...

LOOK at them!
what is insane is taking the largest measurements of an obese Samoan when there are more comparable stats to use when Tua used more conventional training and dieting.
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:23 PM   #381
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by The Mongoose View Post
\

And LHW Antonio Tarver is also considerably bigger than Lewis, going by tale of the tape.

48" chest
29.5" thighs
16.5" biceps


Lewis:
46" chest
26" thighs
17" biceps

You just can't put any stock into this.
The point is Tua was naturally a much bigger man than Marciano and any premise that he could boil down to approximate Marciano's size is nonsense.
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:37 PM   #382
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
The point is Tua was naturally a much bigger man than Marciano and any premise that he could boil down to approximate Marciano's size is nonsense.
Let the Marciano nuthairhangers believe that their childhood hero will beat Tua, over half of them are senior citizens anyways, let them jerk off to their old Marciano tapes in peace.
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Old 01-03-2014, 09:30 PM   #383
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

Tua's legs are just freakish in size. Has there ever been a heavy with larger thighs and calves than Tua?
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Old 01-04-2014, 01:54 AM   #384
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
Tua's legs are just freakish in size. Has there ever been a heavy with larger thighs and calves than Tua?
It's not just his legs. Take a look at prime Tyson's biceps, pretty big aren't they? Tua's biceps were 4 inches larger in circumference than Tyson's even though they were the same height, Tua is probably the thickest/densest professional heavyweight boxer of all time and we have Marciano ball lickers in this thread claiming that Tua and Marciano were "around the same size".
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Old 01-04-2014, 03:46 AM   #385
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

Tua was naturally much bigger than Marciano, both in bone structure & muscularity. Rocky would naturally have been a little over 200 but trained very hard for endurance & sacrificed some bulk. Tua was the sterotype of a Samoan, except just 5' 10. His bicepd were 3.5, not 4" more than Tyson, though likely a bit less than this when both were lean.

This does not mean that Tua would necessarily beat Rocky. Who was mentally tougher & exponentially more consistent. Yet if a prime & focused Tua, when he threw a lot of leather, I would root for Rocky/the smaller man, & possibly his hating body punches would hurt him, but he would still likely win.

Because while Tua was not the most refined pugilist nor would dazzle with speed, Marciano brute force & often unappreciated subtle skills relied on wearing down & knocing out an opponent. Tua had both great endrance & a chin, & hit even harder than Rocky (though not as 2 handed). Rocky never faced anyone like this, Tua's gifts would make it prohibitively difficult, when focused, for Rocky to win a war of attrition. Even though Rocky could beat other better overall fighters than Tua.

Fair enough?
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Old 01-04-2014, 05:18 AM   #386
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by choklab View Post
Tua was only 10lb more than Marciano when he turned pro. that was before he bacame a walking tree stump under new training methods.
Marciano was 24 when he turned pro ,Tua was 19.
Jack Johnson was fighting pro at 168 lbs when he was a teenager, his optimum weight was 208lbs!

Your point does not stand scrutiny.
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:07 AM   #387
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Marciano was 24 when he turned pro ,Tua was 19.
Jack Johnson was fighting pro at 168 lbs when he was a teenager, his optimum weight was 208lbs!

Your point does not stand scrutiny.
It does stand scrutiny because Tua was 201lb. It would not stand scrutiny if he did not weigh 201lb but he was 201.

A generation earlier Tua's weight might not have fluctuated much more than that because the training was completely different.

Amateur boxing training, competition boxing requires the faster pace and staying in shape for a season. Tua trained the way that was required in order to succeed as an international level athlete and his weight was a solid 199lb. He turned pro and trained like a pro and was still only a solid 201. He did not grow taller. There are many fighters who maintain their weight through amateur and pro. Some even turn pro lighter than their amateur days like Jake Lamotta, Tony Belew, Steve Colins and Tony Okey.

Obviously the era he fought in as a pro Tua adapted his training to match and to do what was required in the Pros and his body adapted according to those adjustments.

One thing is sure there was nothing artificial about the solid 201 David weighed as a pro. Samoan or not.
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Old 01-04-2014, 11:44 AM   #388
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
It does stand scrutiny because Tua was 201lb. It would not stand scrutiny if he did not weigh 201lb but he was 201.

A generation earlier Tua's weight might not have fluctuated much more than that because the training was completely different.

Amateur boxing training, competition boxing requires the faster pace and staying in shape for a season. Tua trained the way that was required in order to succeed as an international level athlete and his weight was a solid 199lb. He turned pro and trained like a pro and was still only a solid 201. He did not grow taller. There are many fighters who maintain their weight through amateur and pro. Some even turn pro lighter than their amateur days like Jake Lamotta, Tony Belew, Steve Colins and Tony Okey.

Obviously the era he fought in as a pro Tua adapted his training to match and to do what was required in the Pros and his body adapted according to those adjustments.

One thing is sure there was nothing artificial about the solid 201 David weighed as a pro. Samoan or not.

Again, I have personally witnessed Tua train during his prime run, mere feet away. He was a fit and able 225-230 at the time and displayed excellent output, power and punch resistance. He was a ****ing bull. Juggle all the silly numbers about how much he weighed at 19 you want. He was not fully developed at that age. I don't know many athletes that were. I certainly was not. I suppose by your logic that had he starved himself to 210 for the Ibeabuchi fight, he could have thrown 1200 punches instead of 755. I don't buy it. By the by, care to show me the 12 consecutive rounds where Marciano threw 755 punches? I certainly can't find them.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:07 PM   #389
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Again, I have personally witnessed Tua train during his prime run, mere feet away. He was a fit and able 225-230 at the time and displayed excellent output, power and punch resistance. He was a ****ing bull. Juggle all the silly numbers about how much he weighed at 19 you want. He was not fully developed at that age. I don't know many athletes that were. I certainly was not. I suppose by your logic that had he starved himself to 210 for the Ibeabuchi fight, he could have thrown 1200 punches instead of 755. I don't buy it. By the by, care to show me the 12 consecutive rounds where Marciano threw 755 punches? I certainly can't find them.
I tell you what I certainly CAN FIND..... Tua vs Ron Humes on You Tube. Tell me, does Tua look thin?

He already looks heavy! At the end his second embraces him and his hand sinks into loose flesh on Tua's lower back. He is not a growing boy at all. His shoulders are well developed and his limbs are thick and solid. He looks as old at 19 as Tyson did and nobody could believe he was 19 either. The similarly early developed "teen" Mike Tyson weighed 215 at 19 and was only 5 pounds heavier at age 29.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:20 PM   #390
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Default Re: David Tua vs. Rocky Marciano.

Quote:
Originally Posted by choklab View Post
There are less boxers in the whole of New Zealand than there were in half of New England when Rocky was in the golden gloves. so being a "national" champion at 16 of an Australasian country is not the great shakes you think it is. Years after he was relevant 40 plus year old Joe Bugner was Australian Heavyweight champ when ever he wanted to be. The heavyweight boxing population of Australasia is tiny.
I couldn't give a toss how many boxers there were, or are in New England, or New Zealand. I'm telling you that at 16 he was able to compete for his National title at Senior Heavyweight, and unless there were a host of 16 year olds his size wandering about it is fair to assume he would have been fighting older guys, who it must be assumed must have been heavier than him. Logic then tells you he would have grown between then and turning pro at 19.

You are trying to imply that his optimum fighting weight was just over 200lbs, and therefore he was not much bigger than Marciano.

This is simply wrong no matter how much you try to spin it.
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