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Old 07-28-2013, 03:29 PM   #16
BillB
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Like you, I honestly think that you could hand pick a date when Patterson could have avenged his defeats at the hands of Sony Liston.
I agree.
Any date after Dec. 30, 1970, Patterson could have beaten Liston.

If he had waited until around 1990 he could have avenged his two defeats by Ali.

Last edited by BillB; 07-28-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Personally, I believe he would have reversed the outcome of Liston I & II in a third bout scheduled for 15 rounds during 1969
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Old 07-28-2013, 05:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

Also Powell may have been better than skhor, but he was not better than the 6'2 213lb Joe Louis, that Marciano knocked out. Not even close.
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Calm down Rocky
While by no means were the Floyd-Sonny scraps an ananamoly, a 66 and beyond Sonny simply was damaged goods at that point. Outside of Henry Clark, he beat No one of any significance and got nailed by Leotis. It could also be argued that Floyd was a better fighter after the Sonny bouts.
But even if Patterson had bested Liston in 67-68 it wouldn't have given any closure to anyone but Floyd himself. IMO Patterson would have beaten Liston 67-68-69. Floyd still had his game intact, something Sonny didn't have.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
This would have also been your response to similar speculation about Floyd reversing his defeat to Ingo if they had never rematched.

You truly believe Sonny would have crushed the younger, more experienced and better conditioned Patterson in the same manner in 1969 that Liston did six and seven years earlier?
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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This would have also been your response to similar speculation about Floyd reversing his defeat to Ingo if they had never rematched.

You truly believe Sonny would have crushed the younger, more experienced and better conditioned Patterson in the same manner in 1969 that Liston did six and seven years earlier?

Patterson had TWO chances against Liston. At 26-27 years old. His prime years. He got knocked out in the first round both times. Time to let it go. Sonny had floyd's number.
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:19 AM   #22
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

Boxing's ratings are a bit strange though. The fact that he's ranked #7 at the end of 1963 shows that you really don't have to do much in boxing in be 'among the best in the world'. Established fighters get gifted these places.


No doubt in my mind that Patterson was very good pound-for-pound though.
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:43 AM   #23
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

Patterson's avoidance of top challengers while he was champion, ruins his legacy for me.
On the plus side, he was a true gentleman.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:01 AM   #24
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 View Post
Patterson had TWO chances against Liston. At 26-27 years old. His prime years. He got knocked out in the first round both times. Time to let it go. Sonny had floyd's number.
I definitely agree with this. Not to denigrate Floyd,but I think he was absolutely and literally petrified of Liston. And he wasn't on his own,nobody wanted him. You could have got 20 to one on Ali in the first fight,people forget that.
As said,Floyd did brilliantly for years after those losses. For such a small man a great heavyweight record. He beat Eddie Machen,a man Cus Damato kept him away from when he was champion,and one of the only others who would get in the ring with Liston at hs peak. If he could have overcome his fear of Sonny he might just have had a chance on the night Leotis Martin beat him. But Id have given a peak Martin 3 rounds at the most with Liston at his best.
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Old 06-07-2014, 06:37 AM   #25
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

I think that Ellis probably didn't beat him, and I don't like Quarry draw but I think that the second Quarry fight is very reasonably scored for Quarry. You can find plenty of ringsiders who scored it for him too. I had it a draw, so I have no problem with that card.

As far as the thread, yes. I rank him outside the very, very best but he's very obviously above Walcott for me, and I think the guys he is arguing with are Langford and Charles.
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:24 AM   #26
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

When he was first champ..he hardly fought and avoided Liston for several years...Liston was uncrowned champ for about 3 years. Floyd reigned in a terribly moderate era.
Yes he had longevity extremely nice guy and a slick boxer.
Always looked very small for a HW to me on films ?
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

I've never seen eye to eye on those who thought Patterson was robbed against Ellis, I had the bout a disappointing draw in that Ellis looked a little sloppy and Floyd simply never accelerated in a fight that was his for the taking.
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Old 06-07-2014, 02:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Originally Posted by jowcol View Post
Calm down Rocky
While by no means were the Floyd-Sonny scraps an ananamoly, a 66 and beyond Sonny simply was damaged goods at that point. Outside of Henry Clark, he beat No one of any significance and got nailed by Leotis. It could also be argued that Floyd was a better fighter after the Sonny bouts.
But even if Patterson had bested Liston in 67-68 it wouldn't have given any closure to anyone but Floyd himself. IMO Patterson would have beaten Liston 67-68-69. Floyd still had his game intact, something Sonny didn't have.
Well said posting. Even going into the second Ali bout (after it was postponed) Liston had lost his game according to those in his camp, knocked around by sparring partners he had once battered, stumbling jumping rope, and with no rhythm of punching on any of the bags he had simply gotten old boxing wise.
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:34 PM   #29
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I think that Ellis probably didn't beat him, and I don't like Quarry draw but I think that the second Quarry fight is very reasonably scored for Quarry. You can find plenty of ringsiders who scored it for him too. I had it a draw, so I have no problem with that card.

As far as the thread, yes. I rank him outside the very, very best but he's very obviously above Walcott for me, and I think the guys he is arguing with are Langford and Charles.
and here is WHY I pay little heed to Achievement based placement... it IS Fine for a starting point and comparative discussion, but when even knowledgeable people get caught up in Champions or Contention Stats and forget the reality, like here.

NO WAY is Paterson better than JJW or Charles, sorry!
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:46 PM   #30
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Originally Posted by thistle1 View Post
and here is WHY I pay little heed to Achievement based placement...
I'm mostly the opposite. That is, I'm interested in all of these opinions - so if a guy puts together a pure skill based list, I want to read it, but i'm very aware that it's more subjective. So, for me to take it "seriously" it would need to be someone I really respected.
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