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Old 06-07-2014, 04:55 PM   #31
BillB
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Originally Posted by timmers612 View Post
Well said posting. Even going into the second Ali bout (after it was postponed) Liston had lost his game according to those in his camp, knocked around by sparring partners he had once battered, stumbling jumping rope, and with no rhythm of punching on any of the bags he had simply gotten old boxing wise.
Liston may not have trained or taken the fight seriously because he knew he was going to take a dive.

Never take either one of those fights at face value.
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:55 PM   #32
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Like you, I honestly think that you could hand pick a date when Patterson could have avenged his defeats at the hands of Sony Liston.

Really, when ?

Floyd was a terrific talent with a huge heart .. he did not take a huge punch well and in certain match ups he would simply never win .. he also in some ways never got over being dropped by an amateur ... I think he had the fastest hands of any heavyweight champ that ever lived , was a decent puncher and proved more as a former champ than while champ .. he fought better fighters and gave a terrific series of performances ..
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:59 PM   #33
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

Did not pattersons brother flatten liston in a sparing session and they had him thrown out ?, swear I saw a picture of that the other day on FB
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:04 PM   #34
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

I will not post the link but if you have FaceBook I have the pic of it, though im sure many on here know it happened all ready, and sparing don't always mean much either as we never know what the circumstances were of the session, he may have just been mucking about or tired etc.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:55 PM   #35
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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I agree.
Any date after Dec. 30, 1970, Patterson could have beaten Liston.

If he had waited until around 1990 he could have avenged his two defeats by Ali.
I always have thought very highly of Floyd, but no way would he ever beat Liston. Sonny was his nemesis, just like Foreman was Frazier's unbeatable foe.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:55 PM   #36
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Arrow Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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I've never seen eye to eye on those who thought Patterson was robbed against Ellis, I had the bout a disappointing draw in that Ellis looked a little sloppy and Floyd simply never accelerated in a fight that was his for the taking.
This! My take too.
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Old 06-07-2014, 06:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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I always have thought very highly of Floyd, but no way would he ever beat Liston. Sonny was his nemesis, just like Foreman was Frazier's unbeatable foe.
I agree. Dec. 30, 1970 is the day Liston was found dead.
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:37 PM   #38
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

Patterson is unlucky that there was no cruiserweight division. He would've dominated that shit.
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Old 06-07-2014, 08:39 PM   #39
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Liston may not have trained or taken the fight seriously because he knew he was going to take a dive.

Never take either one of those fights at face value.
The scribes and gym rats said that prior to the second bouts postponement that Sonny had worked long and hard and looked ready but that when training resumed his coordination seemed oddly off, he stumbled jumping rope and while he put in the time training he seemed to get worse. One scribe who watched Sonny battered by a sparring partner wrote he had no business fighting for the heavyweight championship. The first bout was actually very close at the end.
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Old 06-08-2014, 06:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Patterson is unlucky that there was no cruiserweight division. He would've dominated that shit.
True that.

Patterson is sure underrated and I'm guilty of it myself. The earlier statistics sure state a strong case for the man.
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Old 06-09-2014, 08:58 AM   #41
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

I never realized Patterson was ranked for as long as Janitor mentioned. A truly impressive run to say the least. His claim to an Olympic gold, youngest champion, two time titlist and longevity in the rankings make him a legit ATG for me. He was also possibly robbed in a few of his losses such as Maxim, Quarry and I've heard some even say he might have deserved the nod against Ellis which would have made him a three time champ.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:05 AM   #42
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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I think very little of Sonny Liston as I have wrote elsewhere. He is devoid of any real skills, just big.
Not a fan of Liston either, but what you're saying isn't all together true. Liston had what many consider as one of the best heavyweight left Jabs of all time. He knew how to cut off the ring most of the time but was just unsuccessful at doing it against Ali. He could fight with both hands pretty well. Defense wasn't terrific but not the worst either. Liston had some skills.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:11 AM   #43
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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The jab was decent but nothing compared to the jab of Holmes, Lewis, WK etc. Too slow and a bit unco. It was good enough to deal with opponents like Floyd.

Because of his long reach he could hook his jab at the end. His reach is often overstated though as it was recorded including finger length therefore exaggerated by a few inches.
He was actually somewhat mobile and showed some decent ring acumen in his earlier fights. Liston's prime was arguably between about 1959 to maybe 1962. He was in better shape and fighting more actively in those days. In fact he didn't look too bad in some of his comeback fights after losing to Ali. He was a more skilled puncher than George Foreman was.
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Old 06-09-2014, 09:29 AM   #44
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Possibly he had better punching technique than Foreman but he had not the speed or the power that Foreman did to back up his deliveries.

I will concede that he was technically more skilled than Foreman but that is not saying much.

He wasn't Joe Louis when it came to skill in the punching department, but not a plodding fighter with no talent either.
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Old 06-09-2014, 07:05 PM   #45
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

Back to Floyd.
Maxim? I've always found it interesting that a still strong Maxim, with plenty of fuel left in his tank, would do an 8-rounder against an up and coming contender?
Maybe the 'ol white mongoose' outsmarted young Floyd that night, but ringside commentators thought otherwise. (can never find a complete version of their scrap)
INGO? Floyd got caught and kept rising! Screw the 'china-chin' nonsense.
Almost killed INGO in the rematch.
Sonny was simply too big and too much, and Sonny said he NEVER hit anyone harder than he hit Floyd, and...Floyd was getting to his feet in both fights...no out like a light, 8-9-10 yer' out!
Ali 1? Could have never beaten Ali but his back issue is a matter of record.
Both Quarry's? China chin?? Two KD's in the second round, the second a SUNDAY right hand by Quarry right on the money! Floyd rises, survives the round, and then hands Quarry a one-sided ass whoopin' until the 9th and 10th rounds when he goes 'cigar store Indian' and let's Quarry salvage a draw.
Their second fight? IMO boring with no big time action. Quarry scores two knockdowns (2nd & 4th) that has Floyd with nothing more than an embarrassed look on his face. (why didn't he unleash more combos in his career? He was clearly the fastest HW)
Ellis? After 30 or so viewings (due to Floyd's passivity) I could accept a draw (I know, you have to take the fight to the champ) but look at both of them after the decision (Floyd unmarked, Ellis a broken nose, both eyes closing bloody mess)
Ali 2: Again Floyd wanted a second crack (at 37, almost 38!) He gave Muhammad major trouble. One judge had it 3-3 after six. Thanks to Devil Green's head butt in Sept. 70 that gashed Floyd's eye, IMO that fight may well have gone deep (Floyd wasn't going to win, but he could well have lost a pretty close decision.
Well....there you have it, All of Patterson's losses.
A true HOF'er! RIP Champ.
And...as the thread mentions, look at his almost 20 year run of being ranked in the top 10 heavies.
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