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Old 08-21-2013, 07:27 AM   #31
rusak
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Default Re: Chrley Burley vs RJJ @ 160

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Originally Posted by JLP 6 View Post
I watched him vs B-Hop at 160 and he looked i-ight.
Jones' right hand was hurt in that fight and Hopkins still barely won a round. You can tell from how bad Hopkins looked against an utterly shot version of Jones that any remotely near-prime version of Jones has Hopkins' number.

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When Johnson put Roy against the ropes Roy was dead in the water and was dropped for almost an hour. All Glenn did was what Hopkins did not do. Continue punching.
Jones didn't look like himself for one moment in the Johnson fight. Moreover, the Johnson fight was not the first time Jones was on the ropes. In many fights, Jones would voluntarily go into corners to rest and counter. To suggest that he couldn't fight off the ropes is absurd.

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Roy never developed the skills needed to be great in the times of Burley. Had he fought the likes of Robinson, Charles, and Moore I have no doubt he would have been exposed for his lack of defense and jab and gotten the heck beat out of him until he learned. Basically, he would have been a solid contender but, not at the upper eschelon's or greatness.
Lack of defense? That's just asinine. I don't know of any fighter, including the best defensive fighters ever, that got hit less against decent opposition than Roy Jones in his prime. Jones' defense was mainly legs and reflexes, but with his power, it was tremendously effective.

Also, Jones had an excellent jab but he consciously chose to forego it much of the time. The fact that he was able to do this is a testament to how good he was, not the opposite.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:38 AM   #32
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Default Re: Charley Burley vs RJJ @ 160

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold View Post
that is nonsense. Which fighter did Tyson, for example, have an advantage in athleticism over? Utter nonsense; you heard Jim Lampley say that and he knows nothing about boxing.
I don't need to hear Lampley say anything, I have my own eyes.
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Old 08-21-2013, 07:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: Chrley Burley vs RJJ @ 160

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Hopkins felt Jones`s punch and that was one reason why he didnt "press him hard". Just walking Roy Jones down was dangerous. He could punch. Check out his performance agasint James Toney at `68. Toney was an exceptional fighter himself but Jones was just too damn fast.

Not counting Burley out or even saying he would be dominated but I would go with Jones based on that incredible speed and footwork.

I read on Wikipedia and another poster here also says that Roy admited he outweighted Hopkins by nearly twenty pounds. If this is true, I wonder why he was so cauious? Hopkins was just not on his game that night. He was almost green, yet he was able to fight Jones close. The fight was more like a sparring session until Hokpins pressed. I think that means the Jones does not have that killer in him normally. It is dangerous to rush in wild against any hard hitting counter-puncher, yet it is doable when you are more techincally skilled than that fighter which Hopkins and Burley are and were.

I have not seen the Jones Toney fight. That is next on my list. I have seen highlights and he did look more agreesive which is good but, I still saw that he was easy to corner if you jabbed at him and he did not have any defense still.

Last edited by JLP 6; 08-21-2013 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Charley Burley vs RJJ @ 160

Regarding the Johnson fight, it mainly shows that the Tarver KO affected Jones mentally. He wasn't fighting his usual style against Johnson and didn't look like himself at all. There was no bounce in his step and no speed in his movements.

To anyone who would use the Johnson fight as a barometer of Jones, show me a single punch in that fight that Jones throws with bad intentions. Not only is Jones not throwing punches but the few he does throw have nothing on them. I mean, does anyone actually think that Glen Johnson has faster hands than Roy Jones? But you would think that watching this fight. Jones looked like he was asleep the entire fight. He's content to just let Johnson walk up to him and swing away.

However, even this sleep-walking version of Jones is still pretty good defensively, slipping punches, rolling with them, etc. The problem is that he isn't throwing punches back. It's as if he's elsewhere mentally.

Hopkins kept Johnson in the middle of the ring and beat him up with relative ease. Prime Jones is much faster and hits much harder than Hopkins. I think prime Jones would have no problem keeping Johnson off of him.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:29 AM   #35
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Default Re: Chrley Burley vs RJJ @ 160

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Jones' right hand was hurt in that fight and Hopkins still barely won a round. You can tell from how bad Hopkins looked against an utterly shot version of Jones that any remotely near-prime version of Jones has Hopkins' number.

Jones didn't look like himself for one moment in the Johnson fight. Moreover, the Johnson fight was not the first time Jones was on the ropes. In many fights, Jones would voluntarily go into corners to rest and counter. To suggest that he couldn't fight off the ropes is absurd.

Lack of defense? That's just asinine. I don't know of any fighter, including the best defensive fighters ever, that got hit less against decent opposition than Roy Jones in his prime. Jones' defense was mainly legs and reflexes, but with his power, it was tremendously effective.

Also, Jones had an excellent jab but he consciously chose to forego it much of the time. The fact that he was able to do this is a testament to how good he was, not the opposite.

Lets go down the list.

I think Hopkins won rounds. Not sure how many. But is was at least four. That is not a lot but it was more a case of Hopkins not following up on the good work he was doing in the rounds he won. One of the broadcasters Gil Clancy said it perfect, paraphrasing, "Hopkins will look at this fight be dissappointed and say to his handlers, I want him, and they will say, you just had him". The point was he was not taking the fight to Roy like he should have. He was doing well when he did. The whole hurt hand thing. Whatever. It is not the first time. I am still waiting on Senya to post his "many examples". Either way Roy fought with it so, kill the excuses. Ali and Liston fought with broken jaws.

The Johnson fight? Roy Jones should not have been KO'ed Glenn Johnson I don't care what anyone says. No rematch either. What is that?

Defense? Roy only used his legs. I don't ever remember seeing him slip a punch, correctly roll, even parry many shot. I have seen him hold his jab guard low, and his power hand up close and that is it. He either moves away, tries to punch with the puncher, or gets hit. There is nothing else.

If he had an excellent jab he would have used it more. He did not use it to control a fight or set a tempo. He threw it like you and I would. Just to score a quick shot and make a opening for a right hand. It was never, Roy is controlling this fight, round with the jab. He did not jab enough and because of that if he had a good jab we really can't know how good it was. Actually, I think Roy said screw the jab and looked to hit you hard with the first shot, usually a lead hook, followed by a right hand.
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Old 08-21-2013, 10:39 AM   #36
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Default Re: Charley Burley vs RJJ @ 160

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Originally Posted by rusak View Post
Regarding the Johnson fight, it mainly shows that the Tarver KO affected Jones mentally. He wasn't fighting his usual style against Johnson and didn't look like himself at all. There was no bounce in his step and no speed in his movements.

To anyone who would use the Johnson fight as a barometer of Jones, show me a single punch in that fight that Jones throws with bad intentions. Not only is Jones not throwing punches but the few he does throw have nothing on them. I mean, does anyone actually think that Glen Johnson has faster hands than Roy Jones? But you would think that watching this fight. Jones looked like he was asleep the entire fight. He's content to just let Johnson walk up to him and swing away.

However, even this sleep-walking version of Jones is still pretty good defensively, slipping punches, rolling with them, etc. The problem is that he isn't throwing punches back. It's as if he's elsewhere mentally.

Hopkins kept Johnson in the middle of the ring and beat him up with relative ease. Prime Jones is much faster and hits much harder than Hopkins. I think prime Jones would have no problem keeping Johnson off of him.
I used the Hopkins fight as well in discribing Jones defense. Please do not make like all I am giving is the Johnson fight. I used the Johnson fight to make one point. That point is that Roy, all throughout his career, could be put against the ropes and beat on. It happened at times in the first Hopkins fight in 1993 and it happened with much more success in the Johnson fight eleven years later.

Roy was throwing hard shots early in the Johnson fight. I remember seeing a hard, clean body shot landed by Jones and wondering how did Johnson take it. Roy was not throwing because when he cannot move around the ring and has his back to the ropes or has to fight flat footed his offense suffers. He is improvensational and he needs the other fighter to do things to help him get his punches in.

Once Johnson put the press on Jones and took his power Jones lost heart and was beat up and put down and out.
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